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Keith Law Rankings

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#31 Steve Lein

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:33 AM

Twins have four middle infielders (3) Eddie Rosario (10) Jorge Polanco, SS/2B (11) Engelb Vielma (13) Danny Santana in their top 13 prospects of a very strong farm system.


I just thought this while reading his Organization top 10's: "Who is Engelb Vielma, and why does Law like him so much?!"

That's one big surprise to me in his Twins notes.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#32 ashburyjohn

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:41 AM

Law is hilarious....check this out...[COLOR=#333333][FONT=verdana]
How in the world did Edwin Escobar not make your list?[/FONT][/COLOR]
Klaw (1:17 PM)
[COLOR=#333333][FONT=verdana]Because 100 other prospects were better. Seriously, that's a clown question. Give me a reason why Escobar belonged.[/FONT][/COLOR]


I don't find this sample hilarious. What about just answering the guy's question, such as naming the weakest one or two areas of Escobar's game that stands in the way of a better ranking? Asking the guy to name Escobar's strongest area wouldn't be convincing anyway. He gave a clown answer.

#33 jay

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:48 AM

I just thought this while reading his Organization top 10's: "Who is Engelb Vielma, and why does Law like him so much?!"

That's one big surprise to me in his Twins notes.


I feel like I follow the Twins' system pretty closely. I would have been willing to lose a pretty huge amount if you'd have bet me he's on any legitimate top-15 Twins prospect lists.

Seth, help??

#34 Steve Lein

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

I feel like I follow the Twins' system pretty closely. I would have been willing to lose a pretty huge amount if you'd have bet me he's on any legitimate top-15 Twins prospect lists.

Seth, help??


I follow it very closely, and he's not even a guy close to my radar...

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#35 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:10 PM

I don't find this sample hilarious. What about just answering the guy's question, such as naming the weakest one or two areas of Escobar's game that stands in the way of a better ranking? Asking the guy to name Escobar's strongest area wouldn't be convincing anyway. He gave a clown answer.


After receiving homer questions like that one for the 10,000th time, I imagine that it's hard to resist giving clown answers in return.

Fans tend to overrate their own prospects without having the slightest clue what else is out there. I'd probably get snippy after receiving that type of question over and over again, just like Law.

#36 pierre75275

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

What is the official Keith Law top ten for the Twins Minor league system. Does anybody have the list.

#37 Steve Lein

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:41 PM

[h=4]Twins' Top 10[/h]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH]Player, POS (Top 100 rank)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1. Byron Buxton, CF (1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]2. Miguel Sano, 3B (8)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]3. Eddie Rosario, 2B/CF (49)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]4. Alex Meyer, RHP (62)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]5. Kohl Stewart, RHP (76)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]6. Jose Berrios, RHP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]7. Max Kepler, OF[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]8. Josmil Pinto, C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]9. Lewis Thorpe, RHP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]10. Jorge Polanco, SS/2B[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#38 nicksaviking

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:46 PM

After receiving homer questions like that one for the 10,000th time, I imagine that it's hard to resist giving clown answers in return.

Fans tend to overrate their own prospects without having the slightest clue what else is out there. I'd probably get snippy after receiving that type of question over and over again, just like Law.


I agree it would get annoying, but he's supposed to be a professional. He should just ignore that question just like he did with the other 500 just like it.

I like the fact that in this day and age, these guys are able to interact with fans but he's at work, he should still act like he's in a boardroom even if he's actually lying in bed.

#39 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:55 PM

I'd suggest if you don't like his style, that you not read his stuff rather than say he is evil/bad/wrong, or that he should change his style. It's all entertainment, right? That's part of his schtick. You know it is coming. It's like watching a raunchy comedian, and complaining about the swearing, imo.
Lighten up Francis....

#40 Physics Guy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

After receiving homer questions like that one for the 10,000th time, I imagine that it's hard to resist giving clown answers in return.

Fans tend to overrate their own prospects without having the slightest clue what else is out there. I'd probably get snippy after receiving that type of question over and over again, just like Law.


You beat me to it. I was just thinking of posting the same type of response. Out of context, Law's response seems what Barreiro would call "jacka--ian". I'm sure at least half of his questions were asking why somebody's favorite team's prospect didn't make the list. If he wants a response, give Law something to work with.

#41 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

I agree it would get annoying, but he's supposed to be a professional. He should just ignore that question just like he did with the other 500 just like it.

I like the fact that in this day and age, these guys are able to interact with fans but he's at work, he should still act like he's in a boardroom even if he's actually lying in bed.


Eh, I don't know. Part of Keith Law is his personality. Sometimes, I find it grating. Other times, I find it humorous. It has always been part of who he is as an analyst and with that personality comes comments like the one he made about Escobar.

He's an opinionated dude and stands by his statements from what I've seen. I don't really care if he's a little uppity about it.

#42 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:07 PM

You beat me to it. I was just thinking of posting the same type of response. Out of context, Law's response seems what Barreiro would call "jacka--ian". I'm sure at least half of his questions were asking why somebody's favorite team's prospect didn't make the list. If he wants a response, give Law something to work with.


Yep. The question was basically calling Law an idiot/incompetent for not putting his pet player on the list. I don't see why people get down on Law for responding in kind, especially given Law's history.

If the person had submitted "I see Escobar is not on the list, could you elaborate why?", I highly doubt he would have received that response.

If you start shouting at the guy with the microphone, you shouldn't be surprised if he unloads on you right back and makes you look like an ass.

#43 Physics Guy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:08 PM

I'd suggest if you don't like his style, that you not read his stuff rather than say he is evil/bad/wrong, or that he should change his style. It's all entertainment, right? That's part of his schtick. You know it is coming. It's like watching a raunchy comedian, and complaining about the swearing, imo.


Agree completely. I would even guess that ESPN encourages him to do what he does. They obviously like what he does. It is part of his schtick and it attracts different readers than others might. I don't argue that he's a bit arrogant, but I can appreciate some of the snark. If you don't like him, there are plenty of other people to read. I would hazzard to guess that he puts a comment in like that in hopes that it might limit some of those types of questions so that he doesn't have to filter through so many of them.

#44 pierre75275

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:18 PM

Thanks!

#45 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:46 PM

On topic of the rankings.....I can't imagine a Twins fan that is not excited by the names on this list and their upside. The farm is in very good shape. Looking forward to it translating onto the big stage soon....
Lighten up Francis....

#46 Twins Twerp

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:17 PM

I would like to talk about Keith Law being unprofessional, but would probably get it deleted #overmoderation

#47 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:23 PM

There are ways to talk about it w/o calling him names, which is what you want from him, right? If some of us can talk about what we like, you should be able to talk about what you don't, imo. I think calling him names, and whatnot, given the rules here, that's likely to get a post deleted I'd guess.
Lighten up Francis....

#48 Oxtung

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:13 PM

Twins' Top 10


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH]Player, POS (Top 100 rank)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1. Byron Buxton, CF (1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]2. Miguel Sano, 3B (8)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]3. Eddie Rosario, 2B/CF (49)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]4. Alex Meyer, RHP (62)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]5. Kohl Stewart, RHP (76)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]6. Jose Berrios, RHP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]7. Max Kepler, OF[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]8. Josmil Pinto, C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]9. Lewis Thorpe, RHP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]10. Jorge Polanco, SS/2B[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Interesting that he is still so high on Rosario and Kepler while the other lists have dropped both of them a bit. His comments on tall pitchers and career WAR is scary. If Meyer doesn't pan out we are in some big trouble. That would put us down to one potential frontline pitcher (assuming we don't draft one in 2014) and he probably won't be ready for several years.

If Meyer fails does anybody think the Twins will trade for or buy a #1 starter?

Taking a different tack, it seems that most of the prospect guys looked at Berrios and believed that he wore down a bit in the second half of the season and that's why his first half, second half splits were so bad. That's reassuring.

#49 Thrylos

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:07 AM

Twins' Top 10


[TABLE]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]

[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]

[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]9. Lewis Thorpe, RHP
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I don't get how full the Thorpe bandwagon is of guys who apparently have not even see him throw the ball (he is a lefty)
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#50 Steve Lein

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

If Meyer fails does anybody think the Twins will trade for or buy a #1 starter?

Taking a different tack, it seems that most of the prospect guys looked at Berrios and believed that he wore down a bit in the second half of the season and that's why his first half, second half splits were so bad. That's reassuring.


If Meyer fails, I think they will HAVE TO buy one...

I like Berrios, but I'm not as big of believer in him as most around here. Think he could be a #3, but not a front-end guy like many are hoping for. His stuff has a whole lot of average in there, and he'll have to develop Radke-like pinpoint command of all his pitches to reach that. And this is more of a nitpick about how people talk about pitchers in a scouting sense, but don't believe the talk about him throwing mid-90's. He'll touch that, but sits around 91. I hate when people mention the top end number talking about a guy's velocity. Take Justin Verlander for example (and he actually does a good job of varying his velocity as part of how he pitches): we know he can touch 100, and that's what scouts mention when talking about his fastball. BUT, his average FB velocity last year was 93.3 MPH. So be wary of those velocity numbers that people throw out there, I don't think they actually represent what you will see from a guy.

I don't get how full the Thorpe bandwagon is of guys who apparently have not even see him throw the ball (he is a lefty)


I think he's being overhyped right now. That doesn't mean I wouldn't put him in my own Top Ten (probably at 10) or believe he could live up to it, but it seems premature.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#51 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:13 AM

I'm driving that bandwagon. My impression went up after seeing him throw. He's younger than Stewart, yet more polished. May not have the ceiling that Stewart has (with the potentially for four plus pitches), but should have three above-average pitches. It also didn't hurt that he had a really good winter. Plus, like you pointed out, he is left-handed, which makes him all the more useful. Even if his ceiling is a mid-rotation guy (which Law says), I'd error on the side of it being higher. Of course, anyone this young you have to majorly project on, and, Thrylos, I know you want to see more before you see the accolades, and I respect that.

In Law's write-up, he has Boer at 16. (And May nowhere present.) So it's like like his list is without faults.

Also has Engelb Vielma #11, before Danny Santana.

That's what's fun about these though... no one's wrong.

You could argue that Thorpe doesn't belong in the Top 10 of Twins prospects or that he does belong at #5 and I wouldn't argue against you... as long as your facts are, you know, actually facts.

#52 mike wants wins

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:54 AM

May not on the list....and Worley not good.....ugh.
Lighten up Francis....

#53 ashburyjohn

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

I don't get how full the Thorpe bandwagon is of guys who apparently have not even see him throw the ball (he is a lefty)


Good catch. Although in fairness maybe RHP is his shorthand for "Right Handed-batting Pitcher".

#54 birdwatcher

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:12 PM

I don't get how full the Thorpe bandwagon is of guys who apparently have not even see him throw the ball (he is a lefty)


Actually, thrylos, I count six experts who rank Thorpe among the Twin's top 10, and five of them have surely seen him pitch, have talked to scouts, and have studied video. They have probably reviewed his stats as well. I count five others who have less information, but all of them rank Thorpe higher than you do. In fact, I have yet to run across a singlr author of rankings that has Thorpe ranked lower than you do. I don't know, but I'd guess perhaps you ought to be the one questioning your ranking and not the other way around.

#55 twinsfan34

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:19 PM

I'm driving that bandwagon. My impression went up after seeing him throw. He's younger than Stewart, yet more polished. May not have the ceiling that Stewart has (with the potentially for four plus pitches), but should have three above-average pitches. It also didn't hurt that he had a really good winter. Plus, like you pointed out, he is left-handed, which makes him all the more useful. Even if his ceiling is a mid-rotation guy (which Law says), I'd error on the side of it being higher. Of course, anyone this young you have to majorly project on, and, Thrylos, I know you want to see more before you see the accolades, and I respect that.


I'm on the Thorpe bandwagon too. The numbers at the GCL, the quality of his pitchers, the BB/K rates - all nice indicators to at least be aware of the guy, even if the best some of us (me) can see of him is a few YouTube and scouting videos vs an actual game or in person game.

I wonder this, how many players who played in the short season rookie league the season before, who were not a top round draft pick (1st or 2nd RD) and not a college athlete, have made the top 100 Prospects list?

You probably see a few of the Miguel Sano's...but then, take out top international signing and it's gotta be a pretty small number.

I know Oscar Taveras and Hanley Ramirez were big time 'finds' (cheap IFA's) but they were noticed after A-ball.

Seems like Thorpe would be in a pretty small list of players who had no pedigree, young teen, and flat out impressed from what they did in the Rookie League.

e.g.Appalachian League[COLOR=#000000], [/COLOR]Arizona League[COLOR=#000000], [/COLOR]Gulf Coast League[COLOR=#000000], & [/COLOR]Pioneer League

#56 Kwak

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

Interesting that he is still so high on Rosario and Kepler while the other lists have dropped both of them a bit. His comments on tall pitchers and career WAR is scary. If Meyer doesn't pan out we are in some big trouble. That would put us down to one potential frontline pitcher (assuming we don't draft one in 2014) and he probably won't be ready for several years.


If Meyer fails, does anyone think the Twins will trade for or buy a #1 starter?

Taking a different tack, it seems that most of the prospect guys looked at Berrios and believed that he wore down a bit in the second half of the season and that's why his first half, second half splits were so bad. That's reassuring.


I think they would be willing to trade some prospects that are likely blocked (1B, CF, and hopefully, also 3B and catcher). I would not expect such a trade until the next wave establishes themselves and the Twins have become a winning (82+) team.

#57 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:29 AM

I haven't seen Thorpe pitch, but he's a lefty that can hit 95,and he's starting his age 18 season this spring. If he lived in the states, he's be eligible for the June draft and scouts are saying he'd be a first rounder (in a deep draft I might add). This offseason he was facing talent well above his current level and doing quite well.

There's a lot to like about this kid, and yes, he has a ways to go. TINSTAAPP applies here. But that said, with guys like Stewart, Gonsalves, Thorpe, Rosario, and Jorge, I'd say the Twins are going to end up with one or two very nice pitchers out of them when it's all said and done.

#58 cmathewson

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:55 AM

That's what's fun about these though... no one's wrong.


I think there are times you can say a ranking is just wrong. Vielma should not even be on any top 20 list. May should be on every top 20 list. There's a lot of gray on these lists, but there is also some black and white.
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#59 cmathewson

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:58 AM

I like Berrios, but I'm not as big of believer in him as most around here. Think he could be a #3, but not a front-end guy like many are hoping for. His stuff has a whole lot of average in there, and he'll have to develop Radke-like pinpoint command of all his pitches to reach that. And this is more of a nitpick about how people talk about pitchers in a scouting sense, but don't believe the talk about him throwing mid-90's. He'll touch that, but sits around 91. I think he's being overhyped right now. That doesn't mean I wouldn't put him in my own Top Ten (probably at 10) or believe he could live up to it, but it seems premature.


I hadn't seen that velo number. I've seen "touches 94 and sits at 92." That's not Radke stuff. That's Hughes stuff.
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#60 Thrylos

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:59 AM

I'm on the Thorpe bandwagon too. The numbers at the GCL, the quality of his pitchers, the BB/K rates - all nice indicators to at least be aware of the guy, even if the best some of us (me) can see of him is a few YouTube and scouting videos vs an actual game or in person game.



His BB/K rates are encouraging. So is his fastball. Personally, I would like to see him have success against hitters who are used to the wooden bat for a bit, instead of kids who just made the transition from aluminum to wood (that's what the GCL is) to call him a top ten prospect ahead of pitchers like May, Gonsalves and Eades. Let him have some success in E-town or CR and develop a good out pitch and I will join that bandwagon.
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