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Another Free Agent?

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#31 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

Yes, I've noticed Young's decline in the field and he's capable of some occasionally poor at-bats. But as long as he still wants to play I'd take him over Plouffe seven games a week.

Also he might bring a 162-game mentality to the clubhouse, which arguably is what the Twins have been lacking the most.

#32 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

I can't believe it's Drew or Young if we are "circling back". That would almost have to mean Garza or Arroyo right?

#33 Dbohnk

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Johan Santana makes some sense. I also wouldn't be surprised if its that Korean pitcher the Twins have been connected to this off season.

Edited by Dbohnk, 24 January 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#34 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

I can't believe it's Drew or Young if we are "circling back". That would almost have to mean Garza or Arroyo right?

Weren't the Twins already linked to Drew?

#35 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:31 PM

Yes, I've noticed Young's decline in the field and he's capable of some occasionally poor at-bats. But as long as he still wants to play I'd take him over Plouffe seven games a week.

Also he might bring a 162-game mentality to the clubhouse, which arguably is what the Twins have been lacking the most.


A 162 game mentality? What does that even mean?

#36 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:52 PM

A 162 game mentality? What does that even mean?


It means that should there be a game 163 tiebreaker, Michael Young will Jeffrey Dahmer the opposing team in their hotel rooms.

#37 DJL44

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:55 PM

Not interested in Michael Young. Plouffe plays better defense.

#38 notoriousgod71

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

I don't think Gardy would say "wow" over a fourth SP. I agree that this sounds like Drew. Or maybe Garza. But a hitter seems more likely to generate that reaction. IMO.


It's gotta be Punto or Butera. Those are the only players that would make Gardy say "wow".

#39 OldTwinky

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:01 PM

I just can't see the Twins sacrificing any draft picks in such a deep draft. This is a whole lot of nothing. It always is with Terry Ryan.

#40 OldTwinky

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:03 PM

They probably gonna offer Garza something like 3 years 50 million and see if he bites.

#41 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

I just can't see the Twins sacrificing any draft picks in such a deep draft. This is a whole lot of nothing. It always is with Terry Ryan.


Except for that one time when he went out and signed $80m+ worth of pitchers.

Also called "two months ago".

#42 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:07 PM

I just cannot see arroyo... just can't. Cannot really see Garza here either unless there's a trade lined up for KC... got to be a bat.. Most likely Drew, and if everyone is out on him, he might come cheap enough where Ryan's going to look like a genius... though if he comes cheap, I wouldn't be surprised if Drew wants a short term deal.

#43 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:09 PM

Weren't the Twins already linked to Drew?


Were they? I remember hearing some speculation based on us not having an established SS, but I don't recall them being linked.

#44 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

though if he comes cheap, I wouldn't be surprised if Drew wants a short term deal.


Win win win all around if that's the case.

#45 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

A 162 game mentality? What does that even mean?


I should have said, Michael Young could help bring back a 162-game mentality, because the Twins recently had some fun, strong playoff drives (like 2009).

But the new normal is a .317 W% in September the last three years. Pro-rating to a 51-111 record which just feeds the negative sentiment, which I am occasionally guilty of.

They've also made a habit of a embarking on a horrendous losing streak every April or May, followed by the trade deadline surge (are we buyers or sellers!?), and then the inevitable collapse.

Terry Ryan promised that wouldn't happen anymore. So I'd rather have him sign Michael Young, who is new blood and has a reputation for playing hard and every day. Young at third and move Plouffe to the RF platoon works for me.

#46 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:15 PM

It means that should there be a game 163 tiebreaker, Michael Young will Jeffrey Dahmer the opposing team in their hotel rooms.


anything that helps win a ballgame, I'm in favor of

#47 Cris E

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:34 PM

"Circling back" = call Tanaka one more time:

"That 7/$155m still sitting OK with you? Gimme a call if you want another crack at 5/$65m. The midwest is a great place to play."

EDIT: It's Johan and/or Pavano. They won't touch the draft picks and there's not much else out there at this point.

#48 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

I should have said, Michael Young could help bring back a 162-game mentality, because the Twins recently had some fun, strong playoff drives (like 2009).

But the new normal is a .317 W% in September the last three years. Pro-rating to a 51-111 record which just feeds the negative sentiment, which I am occasionally guilty of.

They've also made a habit of a embarking on a horrendous losing streak every April or May, followed by the trade deadline surge (are we buyers or sellers!?), and then the inevitable collapse.

Terry Ryan promised that wouldn't happen anymore. So I'd rather have him sign Michael Young, who is new blood and has a reputation for playing hard and every day. Young at third and move Plouffe to the RF platoon works for me.


The Twins record has been awful in Sept the last three years because they are often using those games to "See what they have" with all the Sept call ups.

The reason they haven't been winning games isn't because they don't have any "winning attitudes" or whatever on the club, it's because they just haven't been talented at all.

#49 JP3700

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:43 PM

[quote name='nicksaviking']No, it's Drew's awful splits against lefties. He needs to be a platoon player[/QUOTE]

Drew's Career vs. lefties: .235/.291/.390 (.681 OPS)
Florimon's Career: .219/.278/.323 (.601 OPS)
Escobar's Career: .228/.280/.307 (.587 OPS)

So, if Drew is a platoon player, then the other two options should never even be playing.

[QUOTE]a guy who hasn't played 130 games in four years[/QUOTE]

He actually played in 151 games four years ago. The three years before that: 135, 152 and 150. The only reason it's even three years is that his ankle injury happened halfway through the season, causing him to miss half of each season. He also just missed hitting 130 games this past season due to getting hit in the head by a pitch.

J.J. Hardy also had a horrific ankle injury from a play at the plate. He was also tagged with the word injury prone due to that ankle injury along with wrist and oblique issues. Two years later he's the model of consistency at the SS position.

I'd rather look at the 6+ years of good health, than assume someone is injury prone due to a couple of flukey injuries.

[QUOTE] puts up .196/.246/.340 against lefties[/QUOTE]

If you're going to use a one year sample, at least mention that he hit like Robinson Cano against right handed pitching (.284/.377/.498). You know, the pitchers that throw 70-75% of the time.

And by the way, that slash line against lefties is still significantly better than .180/.229/.230. Which is what he'd be replacing.

#50 johnnydakota

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:08 PM

Except for that one time when he went out and signed $80m+ worth of pitchers.

Also called "two months ago".


only time will tell if it was for Pitchers .....

#51 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:19 PM

only time will tell if it was for Pitchers .....


https://encrypted-tb...YLKpeKnUrZHvn0Q https://encrypted-tb...pAQJuUu4vVWh_Rg

No, I think it's pretty safe to say they're pitchers right now.

#52 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

No, I think it's pretty safe to say they're pitchers right now.


But, but...

7493490.jpg

#53 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:27 PM

[quote name='JP3700']Drew's Career vs. lefties: .235/.291/.390 (.681 OPS)
Florimon's Career: .219/.278/.323 (.601 OPS)
Escobar's Career: .228/.280/.307 (.587 OPS)

So, if Drew is a platoon player, then the other two options should never even be playing. .[/QUOTE]

You realize you are then arguing that Drew isn't a platoon type of player simply because of the Twins incompetence at developing middle infielders? With that arguement, then Samuel Deduno is an ace because he was the Twins best starter last year.



[quote name='JP3700']He actually played in 151 games four years ago. The three years before that: 135, 152 and 150. The only reason it's even three years is that his ankle injury happened halfway through the season, causing him to miss half of each season. He also just missed hitting 130 games this past season due to getting hit in the head by a pitch.

J.J. Hardy also had a horrific ankle injury from a play at the plate. He was also tagged with the word injury prone due to that ankle injury along with wrist and oblique issues. Two years later he's the model of consistency at the SS position.

I'd rather look at the 6+ years of good health, than assume someone is injury prone due to a couple of flukey injuries..[/QUOTE]

I'd rather look at the last three years to make a judgment than I would 2010 and before. Recent trends are obviously more likely to continue than trends that happened last decade.


[quote name='JP3700']


If you're going to use a one year sample, at least mention that he hit like Robinson Cano against right handed pitching (.284/.377/.498). You know, the pitchers that throw 70-75% of the time.

And by the way, that slash line against lefties is still significantly better than .180/.229/.230. Which is what he'd be replacing.[/QUOTE]

If you insist, I will use more than his 2013 splits. Here is his vs. lefty slash from 2012: .198/.260/.302. Trend, not outlier.

He does hit righties well (at hitter friendly Fenway Park: road splits .222/.295/.392), but if we're generous and assume he will be able to play 130 games, we're still looking at less than 100 games where he will A) be healthy enough to play, and B) be hitting against right-handed pitchers. Why would Ryan want to be on the hook for multiple years at $10 million for that kind of player?

Edited by nicksaviking, 24 January 2014 - 03:39 PM.


#54 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:34 PM

.681 OPS against LHP isnt fantastic, but it doesn't scream "You need a platoon partner for him"

#55 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:46 PM

But, but...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6388[/ATTACH]


So you're saying he can DH on his off days?......well, who needs another bat then?! Winner!

#56 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:50 PM

.681 OPS against LHP isnt fantastic, but it doesn't scream "You need a platoon partner for him"


He hasn't had a .681 OPS against lefties since 2010. He's declining and fast. His production vs lefties has fallen off the cliff the last two years, he can't stay healthy and his K% has jumped from the teens to 23% and 24% the last two years.

If this wasn't a well known SS, which the Twins desperately need, I think almost all of us would be yelling to stay away. He's not at the beginning of his decline phase, he's well on his way to the bottom. His vs. RHP production at Fenway Park is masking huge indicators that this guy is almost through in this league. I'd bet good money this will be the last MLB contract offered to Drew, it's over.

#57 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

He hasn't had a .681 OPS against lefties since 2010. He's declining and fast. His production vs lefties has fallen off the cliff the last two years, he can't stay healthy and his K% has jumped from the teens to 23% and 24% the last two years.

If this wasn't a well known SS, which the Twins desperately need, I think almost all of us would be yelling to stay away. He's not at the beginning of his decline phase, he's well on his way to the bottom. His vs. RHP production at Fenway Park is masking huge indicators that this guy is almost through in this league. I'd bet good money this will be the last MLB contract offered to Drew, it's over.


You talk about him falling off a cliff, yet he puts up a very nice 111 OPS+ last season. Additionally, if you look further into his struggles against LHP in 2013, you will notice that he hit .682 against LHP who were starters, where did his numbers tank? He went 1 for 32 against non LHP starters, which points to: He struggles against "tough" lefties, simple enough, sit him against those "tough" lefties or PH for him if needed,he is still capable to start and hit against the non "tough" ones.

#58 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

Or, they can play even worse players, even if Drew does decline. How does that help the team, other than having a better pick in 2015?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#59 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

.681 OPS against LHP isnt fantastic, but it doesn't scream "You need a platoon partner for him"


It also doesn't scream "come pay me 50M for the next four years"

Don't get me wrong, I'd be ok with Drew. That said, there is a little bit too much adoration for his game going on around here in my opinion.

#60 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:14 PM

Or, they can play even worse players, even if Drew does decline. How does that help the team, other than having a better pick in 2015?


How does 12M on the 2016 team for a long-declined, no longer startable shortstop help the team?

Not every long-term problem NEEDS to be solved by April. Now if you can get him for two years? Hey, I'm in, pony up.