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Article: A Snapshot of Twins Payroll

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#41 birdwatcher

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:21 PM

Why do you care about the twins money so much? Why do you care if they spend too much money on Drew, if it does not stop them from signing anyone next year? They lose thirteen million in payroll after this year, they are way under fifty percent, and no one on this roster is due a raise for years. You might argue giving up a second round pick makes no sense, though you would be wrong, but why do you care about the money at all?


Let's turn the tables: why do you think the Twins organization should not care about money at all? Or about second round draft choices? And why do you think their judgment about whether Drews is a good acquisition is inferior to your own judgment, which comes so easily in part because you have nothing on the line financially or otherwise?

#42 big dog

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:25 PM

So, maybe, we should turn our attention to something like: who will be the first player injured in spring training. Something we can't prove until it happens also.


Dibs on Mastroianni!!

#43 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:02 PM

Dibs on Mastroianni!!


Does Samuel DeDuno count? if so I will pick him , as I believe he will start the season on the 60 day DL

#44 Dantes929

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:05 AM

And "build from within" has never worked, in the history of Major League Baseball.

It hasnt even been tried. Find me an example of a team that has been built entirely from within, much less done so and won.

Teams have always supplemented their minor league talent on other ways.

There is room to both wait for the minor leagues to provide the Twins with some of the talent needed to win a World Series and go get some of that talent in other ways.

How would you define how teams were built before free agency? Making trades with major and minor league assets still falls under my definition of building from within. We got Alex Meyer for Denard Span. That is still within my definition. If it has never been tried then where is the proof that it could not work? I promise you that if every team was stuck with only the players they developed themselves someone would still win every year and there would be some extremely good teams. Rays and Giants have been mostly built from within and the players they have let go have been just as good as the players they have acquired so whose to say it couldn't work.

#45 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:14 AM

Jack Morris, Chili Davis, Brian Harper, Carl Willis and Mike Pagliarulo beg to differ


Ask them about the nucleus of players that came up through the Twins system and had already tasted success in 1987: Kent Hrbek, Greg Gagne, Kirby Puckett, Gene Larkin, and Randy Bush would beg to differ. Also, Alan Anderson, and players who came up just in time for 1991--such as Scott Erickson and Chuck Knoblauch.

Is there a comparison between the 1990 Twins roster and the 2013 version? No comparison.

#46 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:29 AM

Ask them about the nucleus of players that came up through the Twins system and had already tasted success in 1987: Kent Hrbek, Greg Gagne, Kirby Puckett, Gene Larkin, and Randy Bush would beg to differ. Also, Alan Anderson, and players who came up just in time for 1991--such as Scott Erickson and Chuck Knoblauch.

Is there a comparison between the 1990 Twins roster and the 2013 version? No comparison.


There would be if TR would promote Sano and Buxton like McPhail promoted Hrbek and Puckett and others.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#47 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:30 AM

Let's turn the tables: why do you think the Twins organization should not care about money at all? Or about second round draft choices? And why do you think their judgment about whether Drews is a good acquisition is inferior to your own judgment, which comes so easily in part because you have nothing on the line financially or otherwise?


The Twins should care, but that's not what people are posting.....they are saying they don't think it is worth the money. The Twins can do whatever the heck they want, but why does a fan care if they make huge money, or even huger money?

It wasn't "why do the Twins care", it was "why do YOU care" about if a contract is "worth it". Totally different questions.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#48 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:37 AM

There would be if TR would promote Sano and Buxton like McPhail promoted Hrbek and Puckett and others.....

Um ... but weren't Hrbek and Puckett already on the major league team BEFORE MacPhail became GM? Didn't Hrbek come up in ... what ... 81? 82? and Puckett in 84? MacPhail was with the Twins then, but he wasn't GM until 85.

Correct me if I have this wrong ... I don't have time to double check.

'The biggest communication problem is that we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply.' Sometimes on here I think this could be stated as 'The biggest communication problem is that we do not read to understand. We read to reply.'


#49 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:42 AM

Ok, insert "Twins GM" there instead. Don't really care who the GM was, whoever it was promoted those guys all up well before they were ready, and gave them time to learn up here.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#50 PopRiveter

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

Hrbek debuted at age 21, Puckett at age 24.
Sano and Buxton are each 20. BB just turned 20 last month and has played 173 games of professional baseball. Seems a bit premature to complain that Terry Ryan is promoting too slowly.

#51 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:03 AM

Huh, I was wrong on Puckett, thanks for the correction. For some reason, I thought he was up sooner than that.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#52 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:28 AM

Baseball was a very different game in the early 80s. Outside of monster talent like Trout or Cabrera, guys simply don't make it to MLB before age 21-22 in today's game. Ryan isn't doing anything wrong with Sano and Buxton. He's taking them steadily through the system as they show the org they're ready to move.

Besides, what's the rush? Every month of "postponement" of seeing Sano/Buxton comes closer to getting an entire extra year of control over them into their mid to late 20s (aka. their peak seasons). Sano is going to see MLB as a 21 year old and Buxton might see MLB as a 20 year old. I think it's a bit odd to grouse about not seeing them in MLB as teenagers.

#53 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:37 AM

The rush is I don't want to watch crappy ball players anymore. The rush is they are both "in AA" and could be up here. I get it. I should just wait for the future. The rush is that WS team was built by getting guys up here, and playing int he majors for a couple of years before peaking. This staff seems to want them to be peak the day they come up. It doesn't usually work that way.

You know with certainty Sano will be up this coming year? I don't know that.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#54 beckmt

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:54 AM

Drew would not be the answer. He would help, but that decision should wait as much as two years to play out. Florimon could learn to hit well enough, Rosario could hit so well that Dozier is forced back to SS or traded, Santana could be the answer or Polanco, too many variables to invest 4 years in an over 30 player.

#55 Seth Stohs

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:02 AM

I don't know if Sano is going to get called up this year. I expect it'll happen for sure in September since he has to be added to the 40 man roster anyway. I suspect he'll go to AA and they'll go from there.

Buxton also likely starts in AA, and it's the same thing. let's see how it goes.

I suspect both will be up this year, but that's easy to say when Buxton hasn't had an AB and only a half-season at Hi-A. Sano, we don't know how he'll do this year. They're so young. If they're ready, they'll come up. If not, they won't. That's the way it should be.

Puckett flew through the system. 224 minor league games!! Incredible. He just was drafted late.

Puckett was up 2 years aand a month after he was drafted. Brian Dozier was up about 2 years and a couple of months of season after he was drafted.

#56 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:14 AM

The rush is I don't want to watch crappy ball players anymore. The rush is they are both "in AA" and could be up here. I get it. I should just wait for the future. The rush is that WS team was built by getting guys up here, and playing int he majors for a couple of years before peaking. This staff seems to want them to be peak the day they come up. It doesn't usually work that way.


I have a simply response to this:

Aaron Hicks. Sure, Buxton/Sano have higher ceilings than Hicks but Aaron was rushed to the majors prematurely and lost an entire season of development due to his awful play. Why are we in a rush to waste both development and service time on a player that probably isn't ready to face MLB pitching? Like I said earlier, Sano is 21 and Buxton is 20. It's not as if we're looking at a Jason Bartlett situation here.

You know with certainty Sano will be up this coming year? I don't know that.


Nothing is guaranteed but if he's healthy and posting a .900 OPS in AAA (as he's done at pretty much every level thus far), I don't see how the Twins keep him in the minors.

#57 thetank

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:21 AM

Baseball was a very different game in the early 80s. Outside of monster talent like Trout or Cabrera, guys simply don't make it to MLB before age 21-22 in today's game. Ryan isn't doing anything wrong with Sano and Buxton. He's taking them steadily through the system as they show the org they're ready to move.

Besides, what's the rush? Every month of "postponement" of seeing Sano/Buxton comes closer to getting an entire extra year of control over them into their mid to late 20s (aka. their peak seasons). Sano is going to see MLB as a 21 year old and Buxton might see MLB as a 20 year old. I think it's a bit odd to grouse about not seeing them in MLB as teenagers.


When they do come up it may take a while before they are quality starters.

#58 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:24 AM

btw, I'm not saying this particual desire of mine is rational......I really am tired of watching a 95 loss team with no real future players on it (or few). I'm ready to watch a 95 loss team with future superstars on it. I get that not everyone feels the same way.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#59 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:26 AM

When they do come up it may take a while before they are quality starters.


And they're more likely to be productive starters if they're ready to face MLB pitching when they arrive in Minnesota. Nothing good will come of seeing them flounder for a year in Minnesota and waste a year of precious service time.

Hell, they may flounder in Minnesota anyway... But if you give them time to sort out their issues in the minors, at least you're comfortable knowing that you did all you could to help them succeed in MLB.

#60 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:27 AM

btw, I'm not saying this particual desire of mine is rational......I really am tired of watching a 95 loss team with no real future players on it (or few). I'm ready to watch a 95 loss team with future superstars on it. I get that not everyone feels the same way.


I'm ready to see a better baseball team last week but not at the expense of losing a year of service time on a couple of potential superstars that aren't ready to face MLB pitching.

They'll be here in time. Sure, I wish that time was right now but that's not realistic.