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Nuke the Vikings

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#1 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

What a joke this franchise is. They need to clean house top to bottom.

#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

I would've felt better had Spielman been fired as well. He's a pretty solid drafter, but I don't think there is any question the QB issues are 100% on him.

He totally blew that.

#3 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:10 PM

He really made one choice onQB though......you don't kill Ponders career before this year.......I say he gets one more shot. But if the ST coach said what Kluwe alleges, that is bd for him. And Henderson is clearly an idiot whose time has come.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#4 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:20 PM

Priefer is certainly on the way out, Spielman should follow his bigoted ass out the door as well.

#5 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:31 PM

He really made one choice onQB though......you don't kill Ponders career before this year.......I say he gets one more shot. But if the ST coach said what Kluwe alleges, that is bd for him. And Henderson is clearly an idiot whose time has come.


I don't doubt Kluwe is mostly on point, but his blog/article/whatever doesn't benefit anything. If you agree with his stance in general you probably sympathize, if you don't it probably comes off as self-serving and unnecessary. I took it as being pretty irrelevant.

As for this - he used the 12th pick in a draft where we could have selected Fairley, Quinn, or many other options and he spent it on a guy that many of us spotted from day one wasn't going to be a franchise quarterback.

Like it or not, that one decision to hitch the team's wagon to him for 3 years should be a fire-able offense. It's ridiculous Frazier took the blame considering I thought he did fairly well with what he was given. (Though I don't disagree with the firing either)

#6 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

I wasn't crazy about the Frazier firing. He hasn't been great, some curious coaching decisions and dubious coordinator choices, but he certainly wasn't terrible. A few calls/plays/bounces go the Vikes way and they would have been in the playoffs. This despite terrible play at QB and the defensive secondary, which are the last two places you want to see terrible play. The guys continued to play hard for Leslie long after they had nothing to play for. Often times you see teams check out in that situation.

I have no faith in Spielman. At all. He's too interested trying to prove that he's smarter than everyone else, and too often only ends up outsmarting himself. My prediction: Spielman will identify some obscure candidate that isn't on anyone's radar, convince himself that he sees something there that nobody else does, and hire him. (The Wilfs will like this because he will come cheap). It will be the biggest "WTF?!" moment in Minnesota sports since Kahn passed on Steph Curry to take Jonny Flynn. (Damn, even typing that still hurts.)

Then smarmy Rick and his new hire, the assistant tight ends coach from Slippery Rock University or whoever the hell it is, will make a Ponder-esque reach pick of a QB in the first round. After another 2 disastrous seasons, the Wilfs will lose patience and blow the whole thing up.

And we'll be right where we are today, minus 2 prime years of AP's career, plus one shiny new stadium.

#7 edavis0308

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:52 PM

It will be the biggest "WTF?!" moment in Minnesota sports since Kahn passed on Steph Curry to take Jonny Flynn. (Damn, even typing that still hurts.)


Not to go off topic, but have you seen that draft class lately? The Wolves couldn't decide which players they wanted that night, and I still don't think they can decide on any of them. I mean, Christ, how many of those guys were either drafted by or have played for the Wolves?

http://en.wikipedia....NBA_draft#Draft

/rant

Edited by edavis0308, 02 January 2014 - 08:52 PM.
added the link for other's misery


#8 biggentleben

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:00 PM

Not to go off topic, but have you seen that draft class lately? The Wolves couldn't decide which players they wanted that night, and I still don't think they can decide on any of them. I mean, Christ, how many of those guys were either drafted by or have played for the Wolves?

http://en.wikipedia....NBA_draft#Draft

/rant


Worst part is that they've been desperate for a shooter, and Wesley Matthews went undrafted that year. He'd have been the perfect shooter for them.

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#9 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:29 AM

Priefer is certainly on the way out, Spielman should follow his bigoted ass out the door as well.


Don't be too sure - with the way things have gone for the Vikings in recent history, Priefer will end up being our next head coach.:(

I like Kluwe, he releases his opinions and beliefs into the wild without restraint. He fights for a cause that is easy for me to get behind. At the very least, there has to be some truth to the accusations he made today/yesterday.

I never have had much faith in North American Professional Sports to be a spearhead in the beginning stages of social change... at least Chris Kluwe has infected the goliath known as the NFL a little bit.

I could not speculate on whether Chris Kluwe's activism cost him millions of dollars or if it cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars... I probably lean towards the former.

Either way, I feel strongly that Kluwe made the right decision in speaking his mind the last few years no matter the financial sacrifice, and I hope he will have the platform to continue to do as such.

It's not my money lost, but it seems well worth it to me.

Major League Baseball is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.


#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:46 AM

Either way, I feel strongly that Kluwe made the right decision in speaking his mind the last few years no matter the financial sacrifice, and I hope he will have the platform to continue to do as such..


I am not comfortable making Kluwe a martyr like this. He openly admits to restraint for self-preservation, so he's not this fearless, without restraint advocate you suggest. If he was, this would've came out while he was still employed. I don't begrudge him for not doing it, but he did end up waiting almost a year and until he basically found out he's a replacement level punter whose career is over. Then he unleashed the dogs. There is a lot to this conjecture-filled rant that seems self-serving, not advocating.

And this comes from someone who 100% supports his cause and his actions at various times. This? It seemed bitter and pathetic.

#11 PseudoSABR

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:04 PM

Is Kluwe bombastic, self-righteous and pretentious? Sure. But that, imo, signals the kind of personality that it takes to speak against the good-ole boy club that is the NFL.

#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

Is Kluwe bombastic, self-righteous and pretentious? Sure. But that, imo, signals the kind of personality that it takes to speak against the good-ole boy club that is the NFL.


Is that what he's doing? I think he thinks he's doing that, but is this another example?

I'm not so sure. His interview this morning on KFAN was enlightening and made me think even less of these accusations. It's worth a listen. My vibe was this was emotion and bitterness, not a legitimate complaint. More of that kind of embellishing you do when you're frustrated with an employer or ex-employer when you are bitter about how it ended. I can't shake that this motivated him and we aren't getting a fair take.

#13 Mike Sixel

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:27 PM

If he embellished the quotes, I've lost all respect for him, and Preifer should sue his ass. OTOH, if Preifer said that, then good for Kluwe for saying so, though he should have done it right away.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#14 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:34 PM

If he embellished the quotes, I've lost all respect for him, and Preifer should sue his ass. OTOH, if Preifer said that, then good for Kluwe for saying so, though he should have done it right away.


Defamation suits heavily favor the defendant. I'm sure Kluwe is aware of this and it's part of why he's grandstanding and daring Preifer to sue him on public radio.

Kluwe also seems to want his cake and eat it too: No, I'm not trying to ruin his career. Just make sure he can't ever work as a coach again. He appears to be a guy that is incapable of understanding how his writing comes off to people.

#15 PseudoSABR

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:09 PM

Is that what he's doing? I think he thinks he's doing that, but is this another example?

I'm not so sure. His interview this morning on KFAN was enlightening and made me think even less of these accusations. It's worth a listen. My vibe was this was emotion and bitterness, not a legitimate complaint. More of that kind of embellishing you do when you're frustrated with an employer or ex-employer when you are bitter about how it ended. I can't shake that this motivated him and we aren't getting a fair take.

I can sift through Kluwe's self-aggrandizement (I doubt his advocacy had much to do with his dismissal or Priefer's comments) and see that there's a legitimate, persistent and probably ubiquitous homophobic environment in the NFL that are fostered by verbal derision. Priefer's supposed comments seem all too believable, and I don't think Kluwe would have to embellish to make a great big stink about homophobia in NFL. Sure he's a bit of a punk for doing this after he's been fired and so has much of the coaching staff, but that doesn't mean he isn't pointing to a legitimate concern.

The measured discussions of this issue rarely seems to come from players nor get much publicity. Sure, I'd prefer that, but sometimes the only spokesperson you have is someone whose likely to be a douchbag.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 03 January 2014 - 02:14 PM.


#16 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:15 PM

and see that there's a legitimate, persistent and probably ubiquitous homophobic environment in the NFL that are fostered by verbal derision. .


With this I take no issue, I think you and Kluwe are exactly right to resist that environment and push for change. I just don't understand how such a smart guy always takes a tact that forces one to sift through his own BS to get the point. It's gotten lost more often than not.

With his platform, willingness to be an outcast, and intelligence....he's done very little other than annoy those he could most directly impact.

#17 PseudoSABR

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:32 PM

he's done very little other than annoy those he could most directly impact.

Well, there's really no way to determine that.

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

Well, there's really no way to determine that.


Didn't Kluwe just write a piece basically saying he exasperated the two leaders of his franchise with his antics?

#19 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:35 PM

Here’s my take on the Kluwe thing:


  • I am completely in agreement with Kluwe’s stance on civil rights issues, but I am with Ben Leber in having a problem with the way he went about this
  • If Preifer really said what Kluwe claims he said, he’s a disgusting excuse for a human being and had no place being a leader.
  • My respect for Kluwe has diminished as a result of this. I applauded him for lending his voice in support of civil rights when the marriage amendment vote was still pending. But his actions are not about civil rights or helping achieve equality for the GLBT community or even changing NFL culture. This was about Kluwe being bitter, wanting attention and having an ax to grind against specific individuals.
  • The “Chris Kluwe – Courageous Civil Rights Crusader” narrative is simply belied by his decision to stay silent in the face of comments like Preifer’s. I can understand him not going public, but by his own admission, he did not raise the issue with Frazier, Speilman or Prefier himself out of fear of losing his job.
  • And, also by his own admission, he hoped to continue playing with the Vikings. So while he claims that Preifer is a bigot who has no business being a coach, he was more than willing to keep kicking the ball for him while accepting a salary far in excess of what many people will earn in a lifetime. He claims to feel so strongly about Preifer never coaching again, yet he himself was willing to remain silent and let Prefier keep coaching as long as he still got a paycheck.
  • He had no good answer for when Leber pressed him on why he didn’t say something to Preifer. And Leber talked about how he spoke up to coaches when he felt there was something that needed to be addressed. So I think what we see from that is that Kluwe can talk big about his beliefs on Deadspin and Twitter, but lacks the testicular fortitude to confront someone face-to-face about them. Thus he is in no position to be labeling anyone else a coward.
  • What we have here the one spouse’s version of why the marriage ended in the wake of an ugly divorce. I don’t think Kluwe is making any of this up, but his account is very self-serving, and I would not be surprised to learn he did and said some pretty prickish things that he conveniently left out of his Deadspin piece.
  • I would think a lot more of this if Kluwe had at least tried to engage in some self-reflection or put himself in say, Frazier’s position. Frazier’s job was to win football games, not to enable his punter’s off the field activity choices.
  • There are legitimate football/business reasons why Kluwe doesn’t have an NFL job. He was on the decline. There were younger, cheaper guys available. When teams can get a younger, healthier punter or kicker who is 90% as good as the incumbent veteran for less than half the cost, they do it. It happens all the time. Kluwe’s situation is hardly unique. His activism stuff may have pushed him, but he was on the edge anyway.

#20 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:07 AM

I am not comfortable making Kluwe a martyr like this. He openly admits to restraint for self-preservation, so he's not this fearless, without restraint advocate you suggest. If he was, this would've came out while he was still employed. I don't begrudge him for not doing it, but he did end up waiting almost a year and until he basically found out he's a replacement level punter whose career is over. Then he unleashed the dogs. There is a lot to this conjecture-filled rant that seems self-serving, not advocating.

And this comes from someone who 100% supports his cause and his actions at various times. This? It seemed bitter and pathetic.


I respect your take on this - and I certainly do not see Kluwe as a martyr.

Let's say that what Kluwe said is 100% true on 1-3-13. Would there have been a good time to make it public or should he have sat on it and left it alone? If Priefer is that kind of a **** slush - I would hope that someone would disclose that information.

If it were me, I would, no matter the repercussions.

Major League Baseball is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.