Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

From MinnCentric


Photo

Article: Top '13 Stories: #3 - Twins Spend On Free Agents

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,124 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:35 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...-On-Free-Agents

#2 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,320 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:08 PM

It's a change and it also isn't a change.

Even with the "spending spree", the Twins payroll is about the same as it was in 2013. They haven't actually spent more money - they just relegated more of it to the starting rotation than they have previously.

#3 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 8,115 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:20 PM

Correct, with the new money coming in from the tv contract, they have effectively cut payroll again. All they did was take money freed up, and spend it. Nothing new here at all, yet. There is still time to prove the naysayers wrong.......

#4 TwinsTerritory

TwinsTerritory

    Member

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:43 PM

In my opinion there is a fine line between the Twins spending money because they have it and working to improve the team. When it comes to starting pitching, the Twins have spent some money and have clearly upgraded their options, however they only need 5 starters at a time (obviously depth is important too). I personally liked the Nolasco signing, if he becomes or #2 or #3 in the near future. I'm not as convinced that we needed to sign Hughes and Pelfrey. With the new TV money, I would have liked to see the Twins sign one of those two and bring in a bigger name either this offseason or next. There is a lot of talk about playoff contention on this site and the year 2015 seems to be the consensus of many. I'm not sure that this 2015 rotation puts the Twins in playoff contention:
1. Nolasco
2. Meyer
3. Hughes
4. Gibson
5. Pelfrey/Deduno/Worley/Diamond

On the other hand, 1 more big name would look a lot more like a playoff-contending rotation.

1. Tanaka/Garza/Jimenez/Bailey/Scherzer/Shields
2. Nolasco
3. Meyer
4. Hughes or Pelfrey
5. Gibson/Deduno/Worley/Diamond

#5 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,129 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:15 PM

I guess I choose to think about it like this: They're also deciding to give opportunities to some very talented young players with good upside at league minimum. When you do that at several positions, it affects payroll.

#6 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 2,063 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:24 PM

Correct, with the new money coming in from the tv contract, they have effectively cut payroll again. All they did was take money freed up, and spend it. Nothing new here at all, yet. There is still time to prove the naysayers wrong.......

While it may be true the Twins aren't spending a higher percentage of their financial resources on their payroll, it's unequivocally true that the Twins have far and away spent more on free agency (both in terms of overall dollars and of percentage of payroll/resources) than at any point in the clubs history--which, of course, is the point.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 31 December 2013 - 03:27 PM.


#7 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,530 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:27 PM

This is another one where being upset makes no sense. There was no SS version of Robinson Cano to spend the money on. I think the pitchers they went after are the ones also most likely to succeed. The only one out there that I think might have been a better get was Garza in my opinion, and I'm not sure that's shared here. Santana makes me nervous personally. Garza is also waiting till after the Tanaka thing happens, so I honestly think the Twins were smart in waiting. People would be complaining on how the market passed them by when suddenly Garza is getting the big money deal from everyone who lost out on Tanaka.

The went and spent money on some of the top options available. I get that they could still spend more, but at this stage of the game, I'm not sure on what. They got 3 guys who all look like they should outperform the contract, they are staggered so as to open up one additional spot each year. They did this right.

#8 oldguy10

oldguy10

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 319 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:51 PM

So will the Twins jump in and offer Garza something after Tanaka is signed or not? And is it really necessary to even do so? I think there are now enough potential starters either on the MLB roster or in the minor leagues.

#9 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,530 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

So will the Twins jump in and offer Garza something after Tanaka is signed or not? And is it really necessary to even do so? I think there are now enough potential starters either on the MLB roster or in the minor leagues.


That's just it. I personally thought they were done after Hughes and Nolasco... Pelfrey was a bit of a head scratcher, as I think a case could be made for Meyer breaking into the rotation at some point next year, and Gibson, Worley, Diamond, and Deduno all getting another shot... I think they are done, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if TR has a KC trade lined up.

#10 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 5,024 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:40 PM

It's a change and it also isn't a change.

Even with the "spending spree", the Twins payroll is about the same as it was in 2013. They haven't actually spent more money - they just relegated more of it to the starting rotation than they have previously.



Well... It is a huge change in mentality. Previously (in the Terry Ryan/Bill Smith years) the Twins extended their own guys or re-signed their own free agents instead of spending $ outside. This season they spent record $ on outside free agents (Nolasco, Hughes and Suzuki so far) and, potentially even more important, they gave an external free agent pitcher a 4+1 contract. This is the same Twins who would not sign pitchers to more than 2+1 contracts and preferred 1+1 contacts.

If this change in MO is not huge news, I don't know what it is....

(And they are not done spending yet; they still have about $50 M to spend to get to 52% of revenue so let it play for a while... I still think that they will get a couple more bats... But spending for spending's shake is nutty.)
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#11 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 8,115 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:06 PM

While it may be true the Twins aren't spending a higher percentage of their financial resources on their payroll, it's unequivocally true that the Twins have far and away spent more on free agency (both in terms of overall dollars and of percentage of payroll/resources) than at any point in the clubs history--which, of course, is the point.


Then they must be spending near a record low on their non-free agent players, for the modern era......

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#12 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,350 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

This offseason was a win the moment they went over 3 years and chump change for a FA. That gives me hope for the future.

#13 Major Leauge Ready

Major Leauge Ready

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:38 PM

Then they must be spending near a record low on their non-free agent players, for the modern era......



Are you really saying that the amount they are spending on non-free agent players is the measure by which to determine if they spent money on free agents?

Edited by Major Leauge Ready, 01 January 2014 - 06:42 AM.


#14 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 2,063 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:07 AM

Then they must be spending near a record low on their non-free agent players, for the modern era......

Near record? Propably not. But you're right to remark that not many players on the current roster (beyond Mauer) deserve lucrative, long-term contracts. That's an indictment of the past, not the present, and certainly not the future.

You might continue to tell me that I should not be encouraged by the Twins' offseason, and I will continue to contend that it's perfectly reasonable (and very pleasant) to be encouraged by the Twins' offseason. I don't mean to patronize, but dismissing the 'Good' for the 'Perfect' remains a horrible judgment.

#15 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 2,063 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:23 AM

Well... It is a huge change in mentality. Previously (in the Terry Ryan/Bill Smith years) the Twins extended their own guys or re-signed their own free agents instead of spending $ outside. This season they spent record $ on outside free agents (Nolasco, Hughes and Suzuki so far) and, potentially even more important, they gave an external free agent pitcher a 4+1 contract. This is the same Twins who would not sign pitchers to more than 2+1 contracts and preferred 1+1 contacts.

If this change in MO is not huge news, I don't know what it is....

(And they are not done spending yet; they still have about $50 M to spend to get to 52% of revenue so let it play for a while... I still think that they will get a couple more bats... But spending for spending's shake is nutty.)

This is how I see it too. We're an organization that's known to covet and pay for promotion within, yet we've done such a poor job of drafting/developing/promoting for such a period that free agency has proven a necessity (whither our ****ing payroll).

And let's face it. The Twins are actually buying low on every one of their acquisitions. From Nolasco to Gilmartin. The downside is the Twins get what they paid for. The club needs innings. And if Nolasco played in the nineties (when we were less pitching starved) we might have called him Radke. Hughes and Pelfry are both safe and bold bets. The bet of one year is safe, but the Twins are bold in committing three years to each pitcher (staggered by a year). Indeed, that the Twins payroll remains such a small percentage of revenue, speaks to the deft, if subtle, improvement to the current roster, and what room remains for the future one.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 01 January 2014 - 11:19 AM.


#16 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,132 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:29 AM

This is another one where being upset makes no sense. There was no SS version of Robinson Cano to spend the money on. I think the pitchers they went after are the ones also most likely to succeed. The only one out there that I think might have been a better get was Garza in my opinion, and I'm not sure that's shared here. Santana makes me nervous personally. Garza is also waiting till after the Tanaka thing happens, so I honestly think the Twins were smart in waiting. People would be complaining on how the market passed them by when suddenly Garza is getting the big money deal from everyone who lost out on Tanaka.

The went and spent money on some of the top options available. I get that they could still spend more, but at this stage of the game, I'm not sure on what. They got 3 guys who all look like they should outperform the contract, they are staggered so as to open up one additional spot each year. They did this right.


Well said.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,132 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:41 AM

And let's face it. The Twins are actually buying low on every one of their acquisitions. From Nolasco to Gilmartin. The downside is the Twins get what they paid for.


A great point that too many ignore. I think Nolasco was less of a bet and more of a #3-ish guy but even he projects to do well in Target Field.

Hughes, on the other hand, is a fantastic bet. Everything about the guy suggests that he's a much better pitcher in Minnesota.

#18 Major Leauge Ready

Major Leauge Ready

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:54 AM

From what I have observed, many fans elect to ignore the strategies of rebuilding because as fans they are desperate for Cano, Tanaka, Ellsbury, Garza, E. Sanatana, or even Jimenez type signings. They ignore the demonstrated practices/principles teams follow when rebuilding, especially mid-market or smaller. They don’t give up draft picks. They don’t trade prospects for established players until their core is established and they believe a trade makes them a contender. And, they don’t sign guys to 5+ year deals. I have asked on two or 3 occasions for the posters who believe the problem is just that the Twins are cheap to post examples of teams in similar positions signing elite FA starting pitchers requiring 5+ year deals. The rarity or perhaps none existence ( I can’t think of one) demonstrates what GM’s think of this strategy.

In addition, once again, we do not have all of the information. Is Garza really willing to come back? Of course, he is going to say he is open to returning publically but the Twins FO obviously has a much better take on his willingness to return. Do they believe they can move Correia if they do land Garza or even Tanaka. Do they expect Deduno to start the season on the DL?

I give them credit for moving very aggressively to assure they had major league pitching this year. They could have waited around for Tanaka / Garza and Santana to shake out and lost out on Nolasco and Hughes. The Yankess, Dodgers or Mariners are going to probably going to make insane bids for Tanaka. Seattle’s new TV deal pays them $115M/yr + the national TV revenue adds up to about $100M additional annual revenue for Seattle. And, they proved their desperation with the ridiculous contract they gave Cano.

Someone is likely to give Garza more years than makes sense for a rebuilding team. Santana and Jimenez are high risk and require draft pick compensation. People get negative on the Pelfrey signing but that signing presents no problems that can’t be easily resolved. They can trade Correia if they actually have excess. They could also trade Schwarzak and use Worley or Diamond in LR.

#19 twinsfaninsaudi

twinsfaninsaudi

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 167 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 08:59 AM

Livan Hernandez was signed in 2008. Recall that he was signed to take Johan's spot in the rotation after he was traded.

#20 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 8,115 posts

Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:19 AM

Are you really saying that the amount they are spending on non-free agent players is the measure by which to determine if they spent money on free agents?


no, and you know that is not what I am saying. I am clearly saying that Ryan has not demonstrated any change in his willingness to spend money. The payroll is effectively down again, third year in a row since he took over. Until he shows that he is willing to go for it, there is no evidence he is willing to go for it. I continue to hope he will prove me wrong. And if they are rebuilding, what is the point of a two year deal for a mediocre.bad pitcher? How does the Pelfrey deal help with rebuilding? Adding him, and blocking one of Gibson, Worley, Meyer, May, Deduno, how does that help with the future?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.