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Misinformed Alex Meyer substitute teacher story/Teachers' pay

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#21 raindog

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:57 AM

Teachers should be held in high-esteem by everyone. What a thankless job.

People who consistently spout hot garbage like that should be banned. Seriously.

#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:07 AM

Teachers should be held in high-esteem by everyone. What a thankless job.

People who consistently spout hot garbage like that should be banned. Seriously.


Pfft, it's just babysitting....

:)

Edited by TheLeviathan, 28 December 2013 - 10:37 AM.


#23 PseudoSABR

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:34 AM

I've always viewed teachers as a dime a dozen.

Well, you get what you pay for. That teachers are a dime a dozen speaks to our cultural cheapness, not the ease of which the job requires.

#24 Brad Swanson

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

It's hard to be insulted by something so patently false. It's more sad this mentality persists - great teachers need more support not minimization.


I hear the anti-teacher rhetoric all too often and I never understand it. Sure, there are some bad teachers just like there are bad engineers and pilots and doctors and whatnot, but most of the teachers I know and work with are very hard working and dedicated to their students.

Actually, my dad is one of those anti-teacher people and his opinion is that teachers are "lazy" because they get so many days off. It's strange because I would go and work for him during every Summer, Winter, Spring break and random Holiday day-off, so that I could earn a little extra money. I guess he didn't make a connection there. Most of the teachers I know are working a second job and I rarely hear any of them complain about their teaching job.

Anyway, to keep this on the original topic, yes, Alex Meyer is tall.

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#25 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:44 AM

Teachers should be held in high-esteem by everyone. What a thankless job.

People who consistently spout hot garbage like that should be banned. Seriously.


I'm going to take off my moderator hat for a second and simply say that this is a free country and everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want to believe... no matter how stupid, insane, silly, or offensive it sounds to the rest of us.

Edited by diehardtwinsfan, 28 December 2013 - 11:48 AM.


#26 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:47 AM

I've always viewed teachers as a dime a dozen.


Now I'm going to put my moderation hat back on. At this site, whatever opinion anyone might have needs to be said in a respectful manner. I am really trying to figure out how this post is doing that. I've seen the difference between good teachers and bad teachers personally, and while I think most of us will agree that there are issues with the education system, you can say it in a way that doesn't insult a large portion of the population.

To everyone, please be real careful, this thread is about to go downhill quick. Let's be respectful.

Thanks.

#27 PseudoSABR

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:17 PM

his opinion is that teachers are "lazy" because they get so many days off.

Additionally, most people don't have to take their work home with them, and when they do, they actually get paid for it. Of course some teachers are lazy, but to do the job right (or even just competently), probably means working more hours than you're paid to work.

#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

Additionally, most people don't have to take their work home with them, and when they do, they actually get paid for it. Of course some teachers are lazy, but to do the job right (or even just competently), probably means working more hours than you're paid to work.


My average day is 6:30-4:00 and I don't get a dime of overtime for that 1.5 every day I put in. Plus a couple hours every weekend. I did an estimate for someone that I do a minimum of 400 hours of unpaid overtime every year.

That more than covers my summers. The problem with the lazy teacher belief is that all it takes is one bad teacher to poison the well for the rest of us. It's a hard thing to keep out of a school's culture.

#29 Longdistancetwins

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:43 PM

I remember once having a substitute teacher in elementary school who was playing basketball for the old New Jersey Americans (now the Brooklyn Nets). We didn't realize it until most of the day was gone, but we thought it was cool.

#30 Danchat

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:36 PM

I think the correct statement is "bad teachers are worth a dime a dozen". I go to one of the smartest schools in the state and there are few good teachers. But I really appreciate a good teacher. And I would love to have Alex Meyer as a sub.

#31 DaveW

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:18 PM

Teachers are like every other profession, some are excellent, some are terrible and the majority are somewhere in between. There are advantages (summers off, job security, flexibility) and there are disadvantages (Pay, dealing with crappy kids) etc just like any job.

It's sorta like cops, all it takes is one bad experience to taint the view, when in reality the majority of cops are just regular people trying to earn a living and protecting the masses while doing so.

#32 Steve Johnson

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:23 PM

Innaccuracies in the media? maybe that's why journalists are amongst the least trusted professions. Teachers are amongst the more trusted.

http://www.gallup.co...rofessions.aspx

Edited by Steve Johnson, 28 December 2013 - 06:37 PM.


#33 Marta Shearing

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:31 PM

It's hard to be insulted by something so patently false. It's more sad this mentality persists - great teachers need more support not minimization.

I'd love to explain myself further, but I honestly don't know what's acceptable to say here and what will get me banned. And other than the oversensitivity, I think this is a great site and I don't want to get banned.

#34 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

I'd love to explain myself further, but I honestly don't know what's acceptable to say here and what will get me banned. And other than the oversensitivity, I think this is a great site and I don't want to get banned.


Regardless of your opinion, numerous studies have shown by a large margin that the greatest indicator of chold success is the quality of the teacher.

#35 Willihammer

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

My average day is 6:30-4:00 and I don't get a dime of overtime for that 1.5 every day I put in. Plus a couple hours every weekend. I did an estimate for someone that I do a minimum of 400 hours of unpaid overtime every year.

That more than covers my summers. The problem with the lazy teacher belief is that all it takes is one bad teacher to poison the well for the rest of us. It's a hard thing to keep out of a school's culture.


An 8 hour workday for many (maybe most) of us is actually 8.5. With a 1/2 hour unpaid lunch and two 15 minute breaks (I believe this is law in MN). Some employers will let you lump together the breaks to take an hour for lunch. All that's to say, that if you start at 6:30 and leave at 4 then you're working 1 hour longer than the rest of us, not 1.5 hours.

So, 1 hour per day per week for what, 40 weeks per year? That's 40 additional hours. An extra work week.

I'm not sure if by "couple" of hours on the weekend you meant two, or more. Let's say 4 hours. That's 4*40 = 160 hours. 4 work weeks.

So that's 45 weeks of work per year. And that's before subtracting holidays that only affect schools like MLK day, the entire week of Christmas, and whatever else there is.

edit: I'm dumb. 1 extra hour per day equates to 5 additional weeks. So if your numbers are accurate or typical then we're talking about a 49 week year which narrows the gap quite a bit (before looking at holidays).

Edited by Willihammer, 28 December 2013 - 09:27 PM.


#36 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:47 PM

Not sure what your point was, but the better number to analyze would be my 400+ hours I put in beyond my contract. For most that's OT pay but there are various standards there.

But I can assure you as someone who has worked in business and a typical 40hour a week job for many years pre teaching, that if you think the summers and holidays means we work less for our money - I invite you to come try and prove that true.

That opinion won't last long. The perks are awesome but holy gods do I earn them with every stupid parent, challenging child, and constant prep.

#37 glunn

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:11 PM

An 8 hour workday for many (maybe most) of us is actually 8.5. With a 1/2 hour unpaid lunch and two 15 minute breaks (I believe this is law in MN). Some employers will let you lump together the breaks to take an hour for lunch. All that's to say, that if you start at 6:30 and leave at 4 then you're working 1 hour longer than the rest of us, not 1.5 hours.

So, 1 hour per day per week for what, 40 weeks per year? That's 40 additional hours. An extra work week.

I'm not sure if by "couple" of hours on the weekend you meant two, or more. Let's say 4 hours. That's 4*40 = 160 hours. 4 work weeks.

So that's 45 weeks of work per year. And that's before subtracting holidays that only affect schools like MLK day, the entire week of Christmas, and whatever else there is.

edit: I'm dumb. 1 extra hour per day equates to 5 additional weeks. So if your numbers are accurate or typical then we're talking about a 49 week year which narrows the gap quite a bit (before looking at holidays).


I know English teachers and history teachers who spend closer to 10 hours per week writing and grading tests, and reading/grading papers at home. Also, some teachers stay after school (or come early) to meet with students.

#38 glunn

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:23 PM

Not sure what your point was, but the better number to analyze would be my 400+ hours I put in beyond my contract. For most that's OT pay but there are various standards there.

But I can assure you as someone who has worked in business and a typical 40hour a week job for many years pre teaching, that if you think the summers and holidays means we work less for our money - I invite you to come try and prove that true.

That opinion won't last long. The perks are awesome but holy gods do I earn them with every stupid parent, challenging child, and constant prep.


Based on my dealings with teachers (I served on the local school board for four years), I can believe that you put in 400+ extra hours per year, BUT my sense is that most teachers put in much less than this. Would you agree?

I was a proponent of paying more to the better teachers (based on both objective and subjective criteria), but the teachers' union was not open to this.

#39 biggentleben

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:48 PM

Additionally, most people don't have to take their work home with them, and when they do, they actually get paid for it. Of course some teachers are lazy, but to do the job right (or even just competently), probably means working more hours than you're paid to work.


Don't I know this one!! My fiance works multiple jobs and still has to come home and do all of her lesson planning, paper correcting, student reports, etc. on her own time.
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#40 biggentleben

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:51 PM

The problem with the lazy teacher belief is that all it takes is one bad teacher to poison the well for the rest of us. It's a hard thing to keep out of a school's culture.


This is the same mentality that folks have with social workers and those who receive welfare/food stamps/any government benefit. One or two bad apples get lots of publicity/remembrance, and those who are busting their backsides doing the right thing in the right way are assumed in the same group as those who are the bad apples. I had a boss once who theorized that such views of professions like teaching and social work is a predominant excuse for keeping wages in that field extremely subpar.
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