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Not Hearing Much About Worley

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187 replies to this topic

#1 mudcat14

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:29 PM

Has he recovered from the arm woes that allegedly lead to his demise last season? Unlike his stint with the Twins, his AAA numbers weren't terrible in a limited role. What are the odds on his having a big bounce back year?

#2 Marta Shearing

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:36 PM

The real question is does he still have that tire wrapped around his waste?

#3 cmathewson

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:43 PM

Parker did a good analysis on why he regressed so much. Much of it hinged on the fact that he was really unlucky on BABIP with the Twins. Righties hit over .400 against him when they made contact. Lefties we're not far behind. Some of that was not surprising considering his LD% against. As Bert likes to say, he left a lot of balls up last year. But his numbers have to regress to the mean. He was better than his numbers and could be a useful player in 2014. Unfortunately, he's a long shot to make the team and he's out of options, so...
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#4 Trevor0333

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:05 PM

He threw the same straight 88-90 mph fastball over & over and got crushed.

I don't have much hope for him & think he will be dfa'd after ST.

#5 twinsnorth49

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:09 AM

The real question is does he still have that tire wrapped around his waste?


Are you suggesting his poor performance was due to a lack of fitness? He can look like he swallowed a basketball for all I care, as long as his arm is in good shape and he gets batters out.

I think Worley is the 5th starter out of ST and has a good chance at contributing next season.

#6 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 06:17 AM

The real question is does he still have that tire wrapped around his waste?


David Wells says Hi.

#7 Joe A. Preusser

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:03 AM

Are you suggesting his poor performance was due to a lack of fitness? He can look like he swallowed a basketball for all I care, as long as his arm is in good shape and he gets batters out.

I think Worley is the 5th starter out of ST and has a good chance at contributing next season.


If you're not used to the weight in that area of your body, it almost has to throw off your balance and mechanics, right? Couple that with some injury concerns and maybe some poor luck and I think he has the opportunity to bounce back. But don't discount his physique.

#8 kab21

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:22 AM

I don't think the FO has any faith in Diamond/Deduno/Worley since they have signed 3 starters already and they are still talking to FA starters. I wouldn't be surprised if the Worley/Deduno injuries are more serious than have been reported in the media.

#9 071063

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:54 AM

I think Worley is the 5th starter out of ST and has a good chance at contributing next season.


I agree with this. He is too young to just jettison. He had a bad year and had some injury concerns going into that year. I agree that Worley will be the #5 coming out of ST and then they can evaluate him until Deduna is "ready" to pitch after his injury.

#10 Badsmerf

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:15 AM

I'm with you Kab. I keep hammering on Deduno because of his injury and only one successful year in the MLB. When you're a marginal MLB talent and have an injury it isn't too hard to go from marginal to horrible. We saw it with Worley and Diamond last season. I'm not counting on any contribution from those 3 going forward. In fact, I'd love to never see any starts from them in a Twins uniform again. I know that isn't going to happen, but the less marginal pitchers that get starts the better IMO.
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#11 goulik

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:23 AM

I'm with you Kab. I keep hammering on Deduno because of his injury and only one successful year in the MLB. When you're a marginal MLB talent and have an injury it isn't too hard to go from marginal to horrible. We saw it with Worley and Diamond last season. I'm not counting on any contribution from those 3 going forward. In fact, I'd love to never see any starts from them in a Twins uniform again. I know that isn't going to happen, but the less marginal pitchers that get starts the better IMO.

Disagree. I want whoever is best long term to be in a Twins Uniform. The jury is still out, we do not really know if these guys are better or worse than Correia, Pelfrey, or even Hughes. We have some good clues from advanced stats but we really do not KNOW​ who will be best.

#12 Brandon

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:49 AM

I'm with you Kab. I keep hammering on Deduno because of his injury and only one successful year in the MLB. When you're a marginal MLB talent and have an injury it isn't too hard to go from marginal to horrible. We saw it with Worley and Diamond last season. I'm not counting on any contribution from those 3 going forward. In fact, I'd love to never see any starts from them in a Twins uniform again. I know that isn't going to happen, but the less marginal pitchers that get starts the better IMO.


Deduno has succeeded twice now and he is dominant when he pitches his issue is with control so losing a little probably won't hurt his effectiveness as much as not being able to control where he throws it. If healthy he will be the 5th starter if not he'll be on the DL.

#13 Marta Shearing

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:31 AM

Are you suggesting his poor performance was due to a lack of fitness? He can look like he swallowed a basketball for all I care, as long as his arm is in good shape and he gets batters out.

I think Worley is the 5th starter out of ST and has a good chance at contributing next season.

Being in shape cant hurt, but I dont hold it against him. I hope he wins the 5th starter job. I always liked the legendary Rick Reuschel. Dude could deal.

#14 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:44 AM

Someone on TD did a breakdown of the 2012 FA pitchers, and the results were basically a crapshoot. High upside here, but injury concerns/inconsistent or low-ceiling, but eats innings. Basically, the conclusion was that acquiring more FA and having a surplus is the best way to insure getting production. Aside from Sanchez and Grienke we all would have been wrong about FA targets last year. Getting 3 guys to add to Correia and the rest is a good thing. In all reality, Nolasco should be a #3 on a good team, Hughes has #2 potential (but likely a #4 guy) and Correia and Pelfrey are #4 or #5's. All that said, Gibson and Meyer should be given every opportunity to make the club out of ST. Gibson is now 2 years removed from TJ and may be able to start climbing towards that #2-3 billing. Meyer has the potential to be an ace. He's dominant when healthy and if 2014 is a "get to .500" year and 2015 is a "let's win the division" year, then Meyer would be best off being a part of the 2014 rotation at least by June. Don't hold the talent back (if producing) just because we can. We have likely seen the best of Diamond. Even if he could do it again, he may not be better than Gibson or Meyer. Deduno at his best is VERY GOOD. Worley is still young and deserves a shot, but not at the expense of blocking Meyer and Gibson.

#15 kab21

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:46 AM

Disagree. I want whoever is best long term to be in a Twins Uniform. The jury is still out, we do not really know if these guys are better or worse than Correia, Pelfrey, or even Hughes. We have some good clues from advanced stats but we really do not KNOW​ who will be best.


It's not that Deduno/Worley/Diamond are worthless it's that the Twins have indicated (3 FA signings) that they aren't optimistic about them being effective next year.

#16 cmathewson

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:52 AM

Deduno has succeeded twice now and he is dominant when he pitches his issue is with control so losing a little probably won't hurt his effectiveness as much as not being able to control where he throws it. If healthy he will be the 5th starter if not he'll be on the DL.


This. I share concerns about his shoulder. The main thing there was he had pitched more innings than in his entire career and he just overdid it, causing the injury. He pitched with it for a month before they shut him down. He had it cleaned out, is pain free now and should actually be throwing better come spring training, if you believe the reports. Anyway, let's see him pitch in spring training before we declare that the injury will affect him. When he was healthy, he was one of the better pitchers in the league. There is simply no comparison between him and Worley.

Some have suggested that Deduno is "injury prone" because he had two injuries last year. The first injury was a groin pull suffered in the championship game of the WBC, when the field conditions were way worse than anything you'll see teams play through in the MLB. He suffered the injury in the third inning and pitched through the fifth in pain, keeping Puerto Rico off the board. I would argue he should have been the MVP of the tournament based on that and the other games he started.

Worley is the second coming of Nick Blackburn, who is only as good as his sinker. And we all saw how fickle that pitch was. Worley was more consistent with it last year, in the sense that he never got it to sink. It was consistently awful. So it was one belt-high two seamer after another. His OPS against was over 1.000. That's batting practice. I haven't written him off. But he is an extreme long shot.
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#17 Tibs

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:54 AM

Parker did a good analysis on why he regressed so much. Much of it hinged on the fact that he was really unlucky on BABIP with the Twins. Righties hit over .400 against him when they made contact. Lefties we're not far behind. Some of that was not surprising considering his LD% against. As Bert likes to say, he left a lot of balls up last year. But his numbers have to regress to the mean. He was better than his numbers and could be a useful player in 2014. Unfortunately, he's a long shot to make the team and he's out of options, so...


I don't think he was unlucky with his BABIP with the Twins. I think he was injured, out of shape, and pitched very poorly. That's not the type of pitcher I expect Worley to be though.
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#18 minn55441

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:55 AM

I'm sure it has been a tough couple of years for Worley. He was sitting on top of the world after the 2011 season. 11-3 with a 3.01 era on the team with the best record in baseball.

I remember listening to him after the trade and he sounded like he just needed a fresh start after a difficult 2012 season. I'm sure he thought that a new team in a pitcher friendly park would fix his problems and he could get back to what he accomplished in 2011. As was mentioned, we really haven't heard anything about Worley. this is the time of year where we see some reports about how hard he is working out, about how he has lost 30 pounds and is in the best shape of his life.

Do we have someone working on such an article? I'm sure he still believes he can get back to where he was 2 years ago.

#19 cmathewson

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:05 AM

I don't think he was unlucky with his BABIP with the Twins. I think he was injured, out of shape, and pitched very poorly. That's not the type of pitcher I expect Worley to be though.


If he can't get into shape for a new team and pitching coach, when he is basically given the ball on Opening Day, it doesn't bode well for his career. That says something about his competitiveness. We expected to get Vanimal, and we got Goo-animal.
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#20 TheLeviathan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:23 AM

Worley is still young and deserves a shot, but not at the expense of blocking Meyer and Gibson.


The problem is that, as of now, the Twins have pushed Gibson to AAA and at least one, maybe two, of Worley, Diamond, and Deduno to the brink of DFA.

This situation would feel better if they could find a hole for Correia to fall into.

#21 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:46 AM

The problem is that, as of now, the Twins have pushed Gibson to AAA and at least one, maybe two, of Worley, Diamond, and Deduno to the brink of DFA.

This situation would feel better if they could find a hole for Correia to fall into.


Our favorite team has the too much starting pitching disease. Who is accountable for blocking Gibson, Worley, Diamond, and Deduno from being our stellar starting rotation come 2014?

#22 cmathewson

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:51 AM

The problem is that, as of now, the Twins have pushed Gibson to AAA and at least one, maybe two, of Worley, Diamond, and Deduno to the brink of DFA.

This situation would feel better if they could find a hole for Correia to fall into.


In time. It's tough to jettison the guy who led your starting staff in innings pitched and WAR last year. Especially if he's cheap. When they jettison him, it will be because Gibson and/or Meyer are better. It won't be because Diamond or Worley are better. They will eat innings in spring training. One might make the bullpen, the other will get DFAed. And so it goes. Yawn.
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#23 Highabove

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

It's ironic, but the Twins may end up trading an opening day Starter during the season.

#24 Tibs

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

If he can't get into shape for a new team and pitching coach, when he is basically given the ball on Opening Day, it doesn't bode well for his career. That says something about his competitiveness. We expected to get Vanimal, and we got Goo-animal.


I agree. I was very disappointed with him. It will all play itself out.
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#25 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

If you're not used to the weight in that area of your body, it almost has to throw off your balance and mechanics, right? Couple that with some injury concerns and maybe some poor luck and I think he has the opportunity to bounce back. But don't discount his physique.


I seem to remember reading that there was some evidence that being overweight was beneficial to pitchers in terms of durability.... not sure if there was ever a conclusion on that though.

#26 Kwak

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:18 AM

Worley's "high BABIP" was caused by an overall lack of ability and not by being "unlucky". I fully expect Ryan to give another "shot" in the rotation to try to justify last year's trade of Revere. But there are sooo many others battling for a spot in the rotation, that Worley's leash will be much shorter than last year--I'm guessing 5 starts maximum. If last year's results are duplicated, he will be waived.

#27 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:18 AM

It's ironic, but the Twins may end up trading an opening day Starter during the season.


KC has a history for starting out strong. I'm kind of hoping Ryan will be able to find someone who needs to jump the gun on pitching and unload him in June for a Sulbarran type spec... I'm probably asking too much for the spec, but then again I never thought we'd get someone like that for Butera.

#28 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:29 AM

It's ironic, but the Twins may end up trading an opening day Starter during the season.


Or, before the season begins. How about packaging Deduno, Worley, Duensing, or Swarzak for a shortstop?

#29 kab21

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

I invoke the Duensing Rule.

#30 johnnydakota

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:40 AM

Or, before the season begins. How about packaging Deduno, Worley, Duensing, or Swarzak for a shortstop?


Ok sounds good, now which shortstop?