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Nick Franklin available for ss?

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#21 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Who thinks pursuing Indians SS Mike Aviles is a good idea because to me Aviles is definitely a huge upgrade over Florimon. He also plays 2nd, 3rd, and some outfield a utility player or super utility a little bit like Ben Zobrist. But what would it take to get him to come to Minnesota?

#22 cmathewson

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Im old and forget a lot, who was the last guy Terry traded when his stock was high?


Ryan Doumit.
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#23 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:35 PM

Im old and forget a lot, who was the last guy Terry traded when his stock was high?


He traded Ben Revere after a 3.0 WAR season with us, the jury is still out on whether or not that was at "peak" value but the Phillies got 0.9 WAR from him last year.

He traded Dernard Span after 3.6 WAR season, the second highest in his career. In both those cases he got the other team's top pitching prospect in return.

Before that he traded Scott Tyler and Travis Bowyer at their "peak" time. Maybe you don't remember them because they never made the big leagues but TR traded them for 2.1 WAR of Luis Castillo in 2006 and whatever they got of his 2.7 WAR in 4 months with the Twins in 2007.

Before that he traded AJ Pierzynski to the Giants while he was still under team control and after consecutive years of batting above .300. San Francisco got 1.1 WAR total from AJ. TR would get more than that in the 4.0 WAR he got from Boof Bonser. But he also got 15.2 WAR from Nathan, and 14.9 from Liriano. Effectively out WARing Brian Sabean by 33.3 WAR.

#24 stringer bell

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:44 PM

Who thinks pursuing Indians SS Mike Aviles is a good idea because to me Aviles is definitely a huge upgrade over Florimon. He also plays 2nd, 3rd, and some outfield a utility player or super utility a little bit like Ben Zobrist. But what would it take to get him to come to Minnesota?

I wrote last fall that I would trade Aviles for Plouffe. I don't see Aviles as a full-time 3B, but he truly is versatile and is probably a better overall hitter than Plouffe, although Trevor has more power and is younger. Aviles failed as a regular shortstop after a Rookie of the Year season. I think he is a bit stretched as a SS, but he can play there and is capable at the other IF positions. As noted above, I recall the verdict on Plouffe in the OF was incomplete, if not a total failure. I remember Plouffe looking less than comfortable over there. IMHO, Plouffe is now a 3B, who could move over to first if his bat would play there.

#25 stringer bell

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:37 PM

Don't give up on Hicks. Certainly not for a man without a position. I would love to see Hicks rebuild his value so that he would have high value when Buxton is ready.

#26 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:50 PM

Don't give up on Hicks. Certainly not for a man without a position. I would love to see Hicks rebuild his value so that he would have high value when Buxton is ready.


I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.

Edited by howieramone, 21 December 2013 - 12:00 AM.


#27 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

Ok let me re-state it , who was the last guy Terry traded at the high end and recieved quality and fair value in return?, Not Ben , he got a twice hurt damaged starter and a failed AA starter ,Who went on to struggle a 2nd year in AA, Not Span while he got a lights out starter , he was only in single A, and should have recieved an addition prospect , maybe not an A prospect but at least an -B prospect. I guess a case could be made for trading Drew Butera at his high mark , and he did get fair value for him,actually probally Terry got more then fair value

#28 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:58 PM

I think you're too late. The board has given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.

Dang right trade them all for Dylan Bundy

Edited by johnnydakota, 21 December 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#29 ashburyjohn

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:07 AM

Dang right trade them all for Dylan Bundy


Moderator's note: this thread is about Franklin, with the question about trading Hicks for him. Some tangential discussion in threads is generally fine, but the mutual antagonisms in this tangent don't serve any useful purpose to the topic, so please end it.

#30 cmathewson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:48 AM

I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.


Wow. That is a sad commentary on the board.

Hicks is closer to the guy we saw in Spring Training, when he played like he had nothing to lose, than the guy we saw in April, when he played like he had everything to lose.

Gibson is a lot better than he was in the majors last year. His main problem he had was getting strikes called because umps weren't used to his movement. I've never seen the likes of it. He'd consistently hit the outside corner at the knees according to Pitch FX and the ump would call a ball. That has to improve.

I haven't given up on Eades, but I didn't see anything special about him in postseason and pro ball. He was sitting in the high 80s with a long delivery. I think his arm was tired, as is typical for Friday night college pitchers. So let's see how he does after resting his arm before we pass judgement.

Arcia played center and left through most of his minor league career. It takes time to adjust to the way balls spin in right field. Even Kirby struggled with this in his first year over there. He's played about a half season there in the majors. Giving up on his defense at this point is silly.
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#31 jorgenswest

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:29 AM

Wow. That is a sad commentary on the board.

Arcia played center and left through most of his minor league career. It takes time to adjust to the way balls spin in right field. Even Kirby struggled with this in his first year over there. He's played about a half season there in the majors. Giving up on his defense at this point is silly.


Arcia career in minors

RF 239 games
CF 77 games
LF 33 games

Nick Franklin would be an asset to any team. I am not sure he is a good fit at SS. If he has a future as a 2B and corner OF, the Twins may have a similar player in Rosario. Would you trade Rosario for him? Probably wouldn't be enough. Franklin is further along on the growth curve and might be able to play SS. Rosario and Burton?

#32 cmathewson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:00 AM

Arcia career in minors

RF 239 games
CF 77 games
LF 33 games

Nick Franklin would be an asset to any team. I am not sure he is a good fit at SS. If he has a future as a 2B and corner OF, the Twins may have a similar player in Rosario. Would you trade Rosario for him? Probably wouldn't be enough. Franklin is further along on the growth curve and might be able to play SS. Rosario and Burton?


Still not a good fit. If he played shortstop, sure. He doesn't come close to being a goo shortstop (let alone a good second baseman, for that matter). (For those who wondered where I got the idea of him playing shortstop, it's in the title of this post.)

But we have Dozier, Rosario and Polanco at second. I would trade one of them for a true shortstop. Swapping one player for another of equal value at the same position makes little sense.
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#33 TheLeviathan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Arcia career in minors

RF 239 games
CF 77 games
LF 33 games


facts, schmacts.

Also, at this point you could argue the Twins have done more to give up on Gibson for next year than anything anyone has said on the board. Part of why I don't like Pelfrey is that his signing almost certainly squeezes Gibson out of a regular spot. He's a guy we need to find out about in 2014 not bounce him around.

#34 cmathewson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:24 AM

facts, schmacts.

Also, at this point you could argue the Twins have done more to give up on Gibson for next year than anything anyone has said on the board. Part of why I don't like Pelfrey is that his signing almost certainly squeezes Gibson out of a regular spot. He's a guy we need to find out about in 2014 not bounce him around.


My bad on Arcia's minor league record. I read the chart wrong.

If Gibson dominates in AAA, they can trade or release Correia. Also, injuries happen. Gibson has options and stuff to work on. At times last year, he would just lose control of the fastball for an inning. That's not uncommon in the first full year back from TJ. If he predictably shows he can be more consistent, they'll make room for him.

It's the guys without options and upside that get squeezed by the Pelfrey signing. To some, that's Diamond and Worley. I think both will regress to the mean this year. Because they were so bad last year, that means improvement this year. But neither is likely to make the team out of spring training. So that regression will likely happen elsewhere. Oh well. That was inevitable with Gibson, Meyer and May knocking on the door anyway.
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#35 TheLeviathan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:30 AM

I would feel way better if Correia was gone but right now, just due to options, Gibson gets squeezed. I like Gibson, so I don't like that. I want to see 25+ big league starts this year.

#36 jokin

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:57 PM

He traded Ben Revere after a 3.0 WAR season with us, the jury is still out on whether or not that was at "peak" value but the Phillies got 0.9 WAR from him last year.

He traded Dernard Span after 3.6 WAR season, the second highest in his career.

In both those cases he got the other team's top pitching prospect in return.


Correction, Trevor May was not the Phillies top pitching prospect when the Twins got him, it was Jesse Biddle, or 2 others. Joanthan Mayo's last prospect rating for May as a Phillie was as only their 4th best pitching prospect http://zozone.mlblog...lies-prospects/

It's funny, have a pretty bad year after your promotion to AA and the Phillies analysts, along with the national guys, immediately moved May from the #1 prospect going into the 2012 season, to "enigmatic", has-been, and ultimately, "cast-off" when finally dispatched to the Twins. Many of those same analysts once hot on him as being a can't-miss part of the opening day 2015 Starting Rotation, now pegged him as a future likely reliever. So obviously, while the jury is still out on May, clearly the shine and glow was already faded from May's armature once Amaro made him available to Terry Ryan.

#37 cmathewson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

Ok let me re-state it , who was the last guy Terry traded at the high end and recieved quality and fair value in return?, Not Ben , he got a twice hurt damaged starter and a failed AA starter ,Who went on to struggle a 2nd year in AA, Not Span while he got a lights out starter , he was only in single A, and should have recieved an addition prospect , maybe not an A prospect but at least an -B prospect. I guess a case could be made for trading Drew Butera at his high mark , and he did get fair value for him,actually probally Terry got more then fair value


Well, if you don't think those are fair value for players at the top of their value, it will be hard to find a case that will satisfy you. You might have to go all the way back to Knobauch. No, wait, Pierzinski. Oh wait, Milton, Guardado and Hawkins. This could take a while....
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#38 Mike Sixel

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:34 PM

I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.


The board? Really?

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#39 TwinsTerritory

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:23 PM

Ok let me re-state it , who was the last guy Terry traded at the high end and recieved quality and fair value in return?, Not Ben , he got a twice hurt damaged starter and a failed AA starter ,Who went on to struggle a 2nd year in AA, Not Span while he got a lights out starter , he was only in single A, and should have recieved an addition prospect , maybe not an A prospect but at least an -B prospect. I guess a case could be made for trading Drew Butera at his high mark , and he did get fair value for him,actually probally Terry got more then fair value


I think the verdict on the Revere trade is still out. Revere has time to prove to be a solid, if unspectacular, major league centerfielder. May and, to a lesser extent, Worley still have a chance to be solid major league pitchers. On the other hand, I think Terry Ryan would do the Span trade over again 10 times out of 10. Span is at best an average major league outfielder while Meyer has a chance to be a #2 starter. A top of the rotation starter is way more valuable than an average outfielder.

#40 Willihammer

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:49 PM

I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.


I haven't given up on Hicks, but he does make me scratch my head. Look at his last year.

1. Starting CF (Span) traded to Nats
2. Backup CF (Revere) traded to Phils
3. Great Spring Training, starting job on the Twins
4. Strikeouts, dejection, struggle
5. Demotion to minors.
6. New CF (Pressley) acquired midseason
7. No Sept callup, Pressley treading water
8. Buxton ranked No. 1 top prospect in baseball
9. "Hey Aaron we still really like you. Want to play some Winter Ball and maybe hit the ground running next spring?

"Nah I'm good."

Edited by Willihammer, 21 December 2013 - 10:54 PM.