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Nick Franklin available for ss?

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#1 rico7961

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:38 PM

With the Mariners signing Cano, the availibility of either Nick Franklin or Brad Miller in a trade from the Mariners became a possibility. Would the Twins consider trading Aaron Hicks for either one, in a 1-1 swap? I don't know if I would, but either one of those players would really help our middle infield. With our abundance of young outfielders in our system, would the Twins move Hicks? I don't know what else we could offer the Mariners, but Hicks is maybe too much for either one in a 1-1 swap. The Mariners are looking for a young outfielder that can play defense, maybe we could get more in the trade. That is if the Twins would be willing to part with Hicks, which I don't think they would.

Edited by rico7961, 19 December 2013 - 10:41 PM.


#2 cmathewson

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

The Twins need the depth in the outfield. Plus, Ryan would never trade a guy who's stock is so low. Hicks is due for a bounce-back season, and you don't want that to happen after you trade him.

As for Franklin, I don't know if he's available because of the Cano signing. Cano is a second baseman who hasn't played short on a regular basis since the minors. I can't see him moving at this point.
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#3 halfchest

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:28 PM

I don't think Hicks is enough honestly. They're both coming off down years but Franklin is younger and a better prospect pre 2013. I would love to trade for him but imo you don't trade a guy like Hicks or Gibson who are both coming off down years. Both have a really nice shot to rebound.

The Mariners are going all in right now with the Cano signing. They might want some more major league ready pieces like a bullpen piece and power. Burton/Willingham? Maybe add in a decent C level prospect?

I might consider Perkins 1 for 1 honestly too, but only if you're sure he can play SS.

#4 mike wants wins

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:54 AM

He's about as good a SS as I am, from what I read online from scouts.....why would you want him? And, trade Hicks? Who plays LF/CF/RF/DH over the next several years then?

I don't understand this concept at all.

Dave Cameron: Scouts have never liked Franklin’s glove.

"He's not a shortstop, and while he could conceivably become an outfielder, he isn't one now and there's not a lot left for him to do in the minors," Sullivan writes
Lighten up Francis....

#5 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:30 AM

I don't think Hicks is enough honestly.


Agreed. They had similar prospect rankings pre-2013, but Franklin is 1.5 years younger and posted a 96 rookie OPS+, compared to Hicks' 65.

Don't about much about Franklin's SS defense, but his cumulative 2013 TZ and DRS figures at 2B were comparable to Dozier. Actually, his 2013 season overall is pretty comparable to Dozier's, when accounting for playing time.

#6 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:32 AM

As for Franklin, I don't know if he's available because of the Cano signing. Cano is a second baseman who hasn't played short on a regular basis since the minors. I can't see him moving at this point.

Franklin played 2B last year. (Unless you mean Miller, who played SS.)

#7 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:43 AM

He's about as good a SS as I am, from what I read online from scouts.....why would you want him? And, trade Hicks? Who plays LF/CF/RF/DH over the next several years then?

I'm pretty sure we have LF/RF/DH covered without any need for Hicks. Not trying to read too much into his rookie season, but Hicks looks like a CF or bust type of player -- not much potential value in the corners.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:15 AM

Really? I'm stuck trying to name an OF other than Buxton, who has never played above A ball, btw. I get we are all excited about him being the next Eric Davis....and I share the optimism. But Arcia is a DH. No one (maybe Rosario?) is in LF. And who is in RF if Arcia is the DH (or vice versa).

And, as I pointed out, no one thinks Franklin can play SS .....
Lighten up Francis....

#9 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:34 AM

In your opinion then, Hicks is the only MLB-ready Twins outfielder above A-ball right now? Seems a little extreme, and quite in the minority. Like it or not, our corner OF spots are pretty much set in 2014 and they have little to do with Hicks.

Regardless of whether he can play SS, Franklin could very well have a better MLB future than Hicks. (Probably why Seattle would decline such an offer too.) That's probably a more important consideration for the Twins right now than trying to fill specific holes -- face it, the Twins are going to have holes next season no matter what. Heck, one of them might be Hicks in CF.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:51 AM

But where would you play Franklin? I''m not opposed to dealing Hicks, I'm opposed to dealing him for a 2B when you have Dozier and Rosario.

No, I think Arcia could be a corner OFer. But past next year, I can't name an OFer on the 40 man I am convinced (since Arcia might prove to be a DH) will be up in 2015 and beyond (though I believe Buxton will be, that would still be quite fast). But this isn't about Hicks, as I keep trying to type. It is about Nick Franklin.....and what role he would fill here.
Lighten up Francis....

#11 Twins Twerp

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:54 AM

Lets not forget the chance that Sano ends up in Right with the mixed reviews at 3rd and the cannon arm. His bat will play anywhere. Most scouting reports I've read said he may be able to stay at 3rd but there is always a chance. Still, I think you hang on to Hicks because the talent is there and even as a 4th outfielder he has value. Franklin would be redundant at 2nd and can't play SS. I would guess Miller is unavailable. NO Thank you.

#12 Uncle Jesse's Mullet

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:16 AM

Franklin might be a good get for us, but I'd rather see them pursue Chris Taylor.

#13 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:20 AM

But where would you play Franklin? I''m not opposed to dealing Hicks, I'm opposed to dealing him for a 2B when you have Dozier and Rosario.


If the Twins liked Franklin's MLB future a lot better than Hicks' (I have no idea if I believe that, much less if the Twins do), I'd do the trade and worry about the positions later. Even if neither is a long-term SS, Franklin or Dozier could play there in 2014.

Contenders have to worry about fielding a full, optimized defensive lineup. The Twins can afford to be creative right now to get talent into the organization.

#14 halfchest

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:30 AM

But where would you play Franklin? I''m not opposed to dealing Hicks, I'm opposed to dealing him for a 2B when you have Dozier and Rosario.

No, I think Arcia could be a corner OFer. But past next year, I can't name an OFer on the 40 man I am convinced (since Arcia might prove to be a DH) will be up in 2015 and beyond (though I believe Buxton will be, that would still be quite fast). But this isn't about Hicks, as I keep trying to type. It is about Nick Franklin.....and what role he would fill here.


I did not research prior to posting about getting Franklin. If he can't play SS then I'm not that interested. He's not going to come for free and will require a decent prospect or two or more likely something Major League ready as the M's are in win now mode.

The only other option would be if the Twins feel Dozier could flip back to SS. He looked good enough at 2B I could see it being possible. At the same time though I'd worry about that messing with his head again if he can't handle it defensively. He looks great at 2B and seemed to break out during the 2nd half. If Franklin can't play SS as you say, then I think the Twins have to pass.

#15 cmathewson

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:36 AM

Franklin played 2B last year. (Unless you mean Miller, who played SS.)


Right, but second base is arguably the strongest position in the organization, with Dozier, Rosario and Polanco. So I thought the thread was about upgrading short.
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#16 mike wants wins

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:37 AM

I agree, if they feel Dozier can play SS, go find a 2B if they want.....more and more, I'm thinking Rosario could be the LF of the future, if Dozier stays at 2B or they find another 2B.
Lighten up Francis....

#17 spycake

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:53 AM

Right, but second base is arguably the strongest position in the organization, with Dozier, Rosario and Polanco. So I thought the thread was about upgrading short.

I was responding to this quote of yours:

As for Franklin, I don't know if he's available because of the Cano signing. Cano is a second baseman who hasn't played short on a regular basis since the minors. I can't see him moving at this point.


I guess I am not really sure what you meant there. Obviously Cano is staying at 2B, and that means Franklin (their current 2B) is directly affected. MLBTR calls him an "obvious trade candidate".

And while he's not likely a future MLB SS, Franklin could probably play there for a couple years. He was predominately a SS in the minors as recently as April/May 2013. He probably would have auditioned at SS for Seattle last year, if not for the rapid ascent of Miller.

Edited by spycake, 20 December 2013 - 11:56 AM.


#18 harmony55

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:07 PM

It would be hard to find a closer comp in value, so given each team's respective needs, what about a trade of six years of switch-hitting Seattle infielder Nick Franklin for six years of switch-hitting Minnesota centerfielder Aaron Hicks?

Oliver projects a five-year WAR of 14.7 for Franklin and 14.8 for Hicks, who is 17 months older than Franklin. Franklin has 126 days of MLB service while Hicks has 124 days of MLB service.

Hicks is listed behind Josh Willingham, Alex Pressley and Oswaldo Arcia on the Minnesota depth chart in the outfield (with top prospect Byron Buxton waiting in the wings):

http://minnesota.twi... ... /?c_id=min

http://www.fangraphs... ... L&teamid=8

Hicks flopped in his MLB debut in 2013 (making the initial jump from Double A), while Franklin faded down the stretch.

In its 2011 preseason prospect rankings, Baseball America had Hicks at No. 45 and Franklin at No. 53. Neither player was ranked in 2012, but in 2013 BA had Hicks at No. 72 and Franklin at No. 79.

In 102 games this season, Franklin was valued at 0.4 and 2.3 WAR by FanGraphs and Baseball Reference, respectively. In 81 games this season, Hicks was valued at -0.7 and 0.7 WAR, respectively.

Steamer projects a 2014 WAR of 0.2 for Hicks in 32 games and 0.1 for Franklin in 50 games while Oliver projects at 2014 WAR of 2.8 for Hicks and 2.6 for Franklin in 143 games apiece:

http://www.fangraphs... ... osition=OF

http://www.fangraphs... ... osition=2B

Hicks was the 14th player taken in the 2008 draft while Franklin was the 27th player taken in the 2009 draft.

And the minor league stats for Hicks and Franklin:

AH 2192 PA, .269/.376/.418/.794, 323 BB (14.7%), 446 K (20.3%)
NF 1756 PA, .287/.360/.459/.819, 168 BB (9.6%), 338 K (19.2%)

http://www.baseball-... ... cks-001aar

http://www.baseball-... ... ankl001nic

Franklin generally played in hitter-friendlier leagues in the minors, although he typically advanced at a younger age.

And look what I found when I Googled "Nick Franklin Aaron Hicks":


#19 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:07 PM

The Twins need the depth in the outfield. Plus, Ryan would never trade a guy who's stock is so low. Hicks is due for a bounce-back season, and you don't want that to happen after you trade him.

As for Franklin, I don't know if he's available because of the Cano signing. Cano is a second baseman who hasn't played short on a regular basis since the minors. I can't see him moving at this point.


Im old and forget a lot, who was the last guy Terry traded when his stock was high?

#20 EephusKnuckler

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

No thanks. Franklin wouldn't be the guy I'd go after if I wanted one of Seattle's middle infielders. I don't like the idea of moving Dozier back to SS. He needs to stay at second.

Not so sure I'd trade Hicks just yet. What's the rush? If he can come back and put up decent numbers his value will only increase. Remember, Dozier looked like crap when he first came up as well.

#21 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Who thinks pursuing Indians SS Mike Aviles is a good idea because to me Aviles is definitely a huge upgrade over Florimon. He also plays 2nd, 3rd, and some outfield a utility player or super utility a little bit like Ben Zobrist. But what would it take to get him to come to Minnesota?

#22 cmathewson

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Im old and forget a lot, who was the last guy Terry traded when his stock was high?


Ryan Doumit.
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#23 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:35 PM

Im old and forget a lot, who was the last guy Terry traded when his stock was high?


He traded Ben Revere after a 3.0 WAR season with us, the jury is still out on whether or not that was at "peak" value but the Phillies got 0.9 WAR from him last year.

He traded Dernard Span after 3.6 WAR season, the second highest in his career. In both those cases he got the other team's top pitching prospect in return.

Before that he traded Scott Tyler and Travis Bowyer at their "peak" time. Maybe you don't remember them because they never made the big leagues but TR traded them for 2.1 WAR of Luis Castillo in 2006 and whatever they got of his 2.7 WAR in 4 months with the Twins in 2007.

Before that he traded AJ Pierzynski to the Giants while he was still under team control and after consecutive years of batting above .300. San Francisco got 1.1 WAR total from AJ. TR would get more than that in the 4.0 WAR he got from Boof Bonser. But he also got 15.2 WAR from Nathan, and 14.9 from Liriano. Effectively out WARing Brian Sabean by 33.3 WAR.

#24 stringer bell

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:44 PM

Who thinks pursuing Indians SS Mike Aviles is a good idea because to me Aviles is definitely a huge upgrade over Florimon. He also plays 2nd, 3rd, and some outfield a utility player or super utility a little bit like Ben Zobrist. But what would it take to get him to come to Minnesota?

I wrote last fall that I would trade Aviles for Plouffe. I don't see Aviles as a full-time 3B, but he truly is versatile and is probably a better overall hitter than Plouffe, although Trevor has more power and is younger. Aviles failed as a regular shortstop after a Rookie of the Year season. I think he is a bit stretched as a SS, but he can play there and is capable at the other IF positions. As noted above, I recall the verdict on Plouffe in the OF was incomplete, if not a total failure. I remember Plouffe looking less than comfortable over there. IMHO, Plouffe is now a 3B, who could move over to first if his bat would play there.

#25 stringer bell

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:37 PM

Don't give up on Hicks. Certainly not for a man without a position. I would love to see Hicks rebuild his value so that he would have high value when Buxton is ready.

#26 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:50 PM

Don't give up on Hicks. Certainly not for a man without a position. I would love to see Hicks rebuild his value so that he would have high value when Buxton is ready.


I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.

Edited by howieramone, 21 December 2013 - 12:00 AM.


#27 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

Ok let me re-state it , who was the last guy Terry traded at the high end and recieved quality and fair value in return?, Not Ben , he got a twice hurt damaged starter and a failed AA starter ,Who went on to struggle a 2nd year in AA, Not Span while he got a lights out starter , he was only in single A, and should have recieved an addition prospect , maybe not an A prospect but at least an -B prospect. I guess a case could be made for trading Drew Butera at his high mark , and he did get fair value for him,actually probally Terry got more then fair value

#28 johnnydakota

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:58 PM

I think you're too late. The board has given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.

Dang right trade them all for Dylan Bundy

Edited by johnnydakota, 21 December 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#29 ashburyjohn

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:07 AM

Dang right trade them all for Dylan Bundy


Moderator's note: this thread is about Franklin, with the question about trading Hicks for him. Some tangential discussion in threads is generally fine, but the mutual antagonisms in this tangent don't serve any useful purpose to the topic, so please end it.

#30 cmathewson

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:48 AM

I think you're too late. The board seems to have given up on Hicks, Gibson, Eades, and Arcia as an outfielder.


Wow. That is a sad commentary on the board.

Hicks is closer to the guy we saw in Spring Training, when he played like he had nothing to lose, than the guy we saw in April, when he played like he had everything to lose.

Gibson is a lot better than he was in the majors last year. His main problem he had was getting strikes called because umps weren't used to his movement. I've never seen the likes of it. He'd consistently hit the outside corner at the knees according to Pitch FX and the ump would call a ball. That has to improve.

I haven't given up on Eades, but I didn't see anything special about him in postseason and pro ball. He was sitting in the high 80s with a long delivery. I think his arm was tired, as is typical for Friday night college pitchers. So let's see how he does after resting his arm before we pass judgement.

Arcia played center and left through most of his minor league career. It takes time to adjust to the way balls spin in right field. Even Kirby struggled with this in his first year over there. He's played about a half season there in the majors. Giving up on his defense at this point is silly.
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