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Time for Liriano to go

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#1 Vegeta

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

I am done with watching LIriano. He needs to go. 86 pitches 47 strikes 5 earned Runs and 4 walks. The Twins need to dump him at this point. He is clearly not going to get any better. He has potential , but I don't think there is anything that the Twins can do at this point to fix him. I don't even know if he can be fixed at this point. I think the Twins should stop wasting their time on him.

#2 Highabove

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

I would give him a shot in the Bullpen. His first innings seem to be OK. Remember LaTroy Hawkins?

#3 Dougmancaveitch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:29 PM

I think it's time to send him down. I don't see the Twins bringing him back next year, but what could we get by trading him right now? Nothing? Send him to AAA, maybe he gets some confidence back and he can finish the year with some acceptable numbers.

#4 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:55 PM

I think Frankie should be in the pen--one or two innings per appearance--I have said this for the past 2-3 seasons. He has great stuff and would be a great guy to bring on in the 7th.

#5 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:58 PM

I think Frankie should be in the pen--one or two innings per appearance--I have said this for the past 2-3 seasons. He has great stuff and would be a great guy to bring on in the 7th.


Less thinking... Less set up. Just let it buck.

#6 TwinsGuy55422

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

Weren't they considering making him the closer when Nathan hurt his elbow prior to 2010. If I remember correctly, he told the team he really wanted to stay in the rotation so they let him. Maybe it is time that they tell him how things are going to be. They should let him know that it's bullpen or bye-bye.
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#7 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

I think it's time to send him down. I don't see the Twins bringing him back next year, but what could we get by trading him right now? Nothing? Send him to AAA, maybe he gets some confidence back and he can finish the year with some acceptable numbers.


He is out of options. Not that easy...
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#8 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:13 PM

Weren't they considering making him the closer when Nathan hurt his elbow prior to 2010. If I remember correctly, he told the team he really wanted to stay in the rotation so they let him. Maybe it is time that they tell him how things are going to be. They should let him know that it's bullpen or bye-bye.


I remember reading that in the papers. Liriano didnt like the idea and They settled on Rauch because Rauch said "Coach I'll take that ball" like the 6-10 gamer he is. Rauch made everyone nervous. That led to the trading for Capps costing Ramos.

SO... Liriano refusing to take the closer role led to... Oh my... IS THERE NO END TO THE DAMGE HE DOES!!!

#9 Vegeta

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

I hesitate to let him in games that are close. I think right now he is the "we're getting shelled 37-2 in the 2nd, what can it hurt guy" Maybe the guy just needs some Ritalin to help him focus. I really hope he can prove me wrong.

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:27 PM

Maybe it's time for the Twins to look for a new pitching coach. Way too many pitchers seem to not reach their potential.... (and some of them toss perfect games in other organizations) just a thought
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#11 Vegeta

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

"(and some of them toss perfect games in other organizations) just a thought" Humber has also been through 2 other organizations after the Twins. So trying to blame Anderson is kinda pointless eh

#12 30whales

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

Would you guys leave the rotation as is replacing Liriano with Blackburn when he returns?

#13 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

"Humber has also been through 2 other organizations after the Twins. So trying to blame Anderson is kinda pointless eh


Completely.

#14 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

Would you guys leave the rotation as is replacing Liriano with Blackburn when he returns?


Blackburn is starting on Tuesday. Swarzak pitched today and could make Liriano's next start. It's not a terrible idea.

Honestly, I just don't think there is a great idea in this situation. It's guessing at this point.

#15 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:57 PM

Well, if no pitchers work in this organization lately, you got to blame the coach. Do not forget: The Twins have a higher investment in Liriano than in Anderson. It's about that simple. And the best pitcher who was developed by the Twins this century openly has been atributing his development to Bobby Cuellar and not Anderson.
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#16 glanzer

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

Maybe Liriano is homesick and/or needs some companionship. Think about it---the Twins really only have one other player from that area of the globe, Alexi Casilla, and he's probably not exactly the go-to guy Liriano needs. The team has no other Latino/Hispanic pitchers. If I was basically the only white guy on a team in the Dominican I'd probably feel a little in over my head too.

#17 mnfireman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:07 PM

Maybe the team needs a change at the top. The out-dated pitch to contact stuff is ridiculus. And when they do get a power arm they get rid of him (see Matt Garza) or try to change him to fit the team mold (see Liriano). There are probably many other examples but I don't want to look that hard. That and we seem to be ahead of the other teams in Tommy John candidates (Liriano, Nathan, Baker & Gibson are some examples, I'm sure there are more).

#18 shs_59

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:16 PM

I would give him a shot in the Bullpen.
His first innings seem to be OK.
Remember LaTroy Hawkins?


Well said, Exactly what I think, give him a chance to relieve, he's dominant in 1-2 inning frames at a time.

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#19 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

Maybe Liriano is homesick and/or needs some companionship. Think about it---the Twins really only have one other player from that area of the globe, Alexi Casilla, and he's probably not exactly the go-to guy Liriano needs. The team has no other Latino/Hispanic pitchers. If I was basically the only white guy on a team in the Dominican I'd probably feel a little in over my head too.


That's probably part of the reason (I don't think it is homesickness as much as communication issues) that Liriano has been pitching better (like much better) when Rene Rivera catches him...
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#20 Neinstein

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:33 PM

I would put him in the Bullpen, but I'd be wary of using him longer than 4 outs. I think he could be an above average Reliever, not sure about closer.
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#21 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

His days as a starter are definitely numbered. I believe a move to the pen with the hopes of trading him before the deadline have to be on the horizon.

#22 TheMix

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

Well, if no pitchers work in this organization lately, you got to blame the coach.

Do not forget: The Twins have a higher investment in Liriano than in Anderson. It's about that simple. And the best pitcher who was developed by the Twins this century openly has been atributing his development to Bobby Cuellar and not Anderson.


I think that's a fairly myopic view. Perkins has worked out great. Other recent departees were great (see Gurrier & Crain). Baker was great before getting hurt last year. I think Anderson's trying to make the best of bad situations....especially with Liriano. There's only so much a pitching coach can do to get a guy out of his own head. And overall, I think over the course of Anderson's career as Twins Pitching Coach, for every bad example of a pitching failure, there's a great pitcher that just either got injured or left the team.

And the Twins do NOT have a higher investment in Liriano. I have a hard time believing that even if he put up monster numbers from here until the trade deadline, that they'd get anything really good. He's just been too unstable throughout his career. We'd have a very hard time selling high with him. So he ends up being just one guy whom you can maybe get a mid-level prospect for unless somebody's ridiculously desperate. That is NOT a higher investment than your pitching coach. Especially considering Liriano is almost surely gone after this year (or at the deadline).

#23 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:35 PM

And overall, I think over the course of Anderson's career as Twins Pitching Coach, for every bad example of a pitching failure, there's a great pitcher that just either got injured or left the team


That's pretty much much what I think too, and I am surprised that we ended up with opposing conclusions about Andy
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#24 Kneelb4zerg

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:04 PM

That's pretty much much what I think too, and I am surprised that we ended up with opposing conclusions about Andy


So the pitching coach who preaches throw strikes above all else is to blame when a starter can't throw strikes? WTF?

#25 Thrylos

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:13 PM

So the pitching coach who preaches throw strikes above all else is to blame when a starter can't throw strikes? WTF?


Not that simple...

Talking about a guy who was on a Cy Young level discussion because he used to miss bats and after the injury the pitching coach did not help him get back there because he was trying to make him a different pitcher
And the same pitching coach has messed up other pitchers who were much better after they left the Twins.
And that same pitching coach was a scrub when he pitched so his credibility is about as much as the hitting coach's about hitting
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#26 BD57

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:18 PM

Don't want him in the pen. What I'm seeing is the moment he's stressed at all, his mechanics, etc. go to Hades - next thing you know, there's a crooked number on the board. Put him in the pen & he's going to enter lots of games in "stress" situations. As for the "going to the 4-seam vs. the 2-seam" .... if that's what we decided to do, how in the heck did he throw so many 2-seamers today? Was the story bogus? Or was Liriano insubordinate?

#27 Kneelb4zerg

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:50 PM

Not that simple...

Talking about a guy who was on a Cy Young level discussion because he used to miss bats and after the injury the pitching coach did not help him get back there because he was trying to make him a different pitcher
And the same pitching coach has messed up other pitchers who were much better after they left the Twins.
And that same pitching coach was a scrub when he pitched so his credibility is about as much as the hitting coach's about hitting


He had a cy young level season with who as the pitching coach?

You are the one being simple if you think firing the entire coaching staff is the solution to every problem. Lirianos a mess, ever stop to think that's Lirianos fault?

#28 peterb18

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25 PM

A few posts have it right. There is too much coaching. Why does he touch only 89-91 mph lately, when he can actually throw in the 93-94 range. It is because he is trying to pitch to spots. A power pitcher has to just bust the ball in there and let the natural movement take over. Way to much coaching! Ever listen to Tom Kelly when he is on the broadcast and keeps talking about hitting certain areas that are numbered? Too much of this over-coaching pitchers in the minors and taking away their natural ability. Look what happened to Winners. Everybody can't be a Whitey Ford!

#29 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

Liriano is on my list of "Players That I Am Quickly Losing Patience With", right below Casilla and above Valencia.

#30 darin617

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:01 PM

Out of options.