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Article: Rajai Davis and the Twins Outfield Depth

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#21 josecordoba

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:07 AM

He's heading to Detroit according to Doogie, so time to move on.

#22 Thrylos

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:09 AM

a. An important point in that list of current Twins' OF is that 7 of them are on the 40 man roster (and I do not view Rosario as an OF at this point and Buxton will not be up there in 2014) and adding Doumit, who should be on the list as well, makes 8. Unless the Twins move some for some actual return, adding another guy who maybe be a marginal improvement over Mastroianni and Presley is moot. The can have a good field light hit OF now with those 2 and Hicks, which can actually be a good late innings defensive OF. I hate the fact that the Twins have been giving players away recently; about time that trend reverses

b. The Twins have way to many holes right now to think about improving their 4th OF. Getting an extra half a win out of their fourth OF, is not just a luxury in a 99+96+96 loss team, it is simply silliness when it becomes a priority over bigger issues.

c. If they want to drive up the price that Detroit will pay, I say excellent work!

#23 josecordoba

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:10 AM

A move like this is fine in theory. This is one thing that Oakland does well is fill out the fringes of their roster. Perhaps it's part of a bigger problem that such players should be attainable for league minimum on a forty-man roster.

Edited by josecordoba, 10 December 2013 - 08:13 AM.


#24 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:10 AM

Redundant how? They have 1 OF on the roster right now, Arcia. Wilingham should be the DH, and never see LF again for an AL team. Hicks is an unknown. That leaves a bunch of AAAA/bakcup types. Why not sign him?

#25 Craig Arko

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:14 AM

I get the feeling this is a 'drive up the price for the Tigers' move. Sounds like Detroit is more serious about this.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:27 AM

a. An important point in that list of current Twins' OF is that 7 of them are on the 40 man roster (and I do not view Rosario as an OF at this point and Buxton will not be up there in 2014) and adding Doumit, who should be on the list as well, makes 8. Unless the Twins move some for some actual return, adding another guy who maybe be a marginal improvement over Mastroianni and Presley is moot. The can have a good field light hit OF now with those 2 and Hicks, which can actually be a good late innings defensive OF. I hate the fact that the Twins have been giving players away recently; about time that trend reverses


I agree with the sentiment that I'm not really sure Rajai brings much to the Twins roster and that 2014 should be used to answer some 40 man questions with the goal of jettisoning a bunch of these guys for 2015.

But outside of Hendriks, what players have the Twins given away?

#27 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:30 AM

I get the feeling this is a 'drive up the price for the Tigers' move. Sounds like Detroit is more serious about this.


Maybe it's just me but driving up player prices doesn't sound like JR's modus operandi. He has always struck me as a guy who goes after a player because he wants him, not because he's trying to drive up the price or keep him out of a division rival's hands.

For good or bad, that's just the guy he seems to be. He doesn't come across as the slightest bit devious.

#28 Thrylos

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:34 AM

Redundant how? They have 1 OF on the roster right now, Arcia. Wilingham should be the DH, and never see LF again for an AL team. Hicks is an unknown. That leaves a bunch of AAAA/bakcup types. Why not sign him?


Last season was the best of the last 3 on the plate for Davis. His slash line: .260/.312/.375 ; his career slash line an almost identical .268/.316/.377. He will be 33 next season so about to decline for a guy whose single major tool as a batter is his defense.

In 2012 when healthy, Mastroianni hit .252/.328/.350 for the Twins. Presley hit .283/.336/.363 last season and .264/.304/.411 for his career. Both of these guys are 5 years younger than Davis.

If their numbers are not close to Davis, I don't know how you get any closer. And if these guys are AAAA, then Davis is too... These 2 make Davis redundant, not Parmelee, Willingham, Doumit and Colabello...
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#29 ericchri

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:35 AM

They need to start shedding guys from their roster to make moves like this. I don't mind a slight upgrade over existing talent, and this would be, I'm just curious who they would drop to make this happen. They've seemed so reluctant to cut people loose previously (though the Liam Hendriks move may be a sign of change) that I struggle to see this happening.

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:37 AM

But outside of Hendriks, what players have the Twins given away?


The off-season is still young

Liriano
Slowey
Mijares
Casilla
Valencia
Young
Thome
Dickey
Breslow
Ayala

etc etc
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#31 70charger

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:40 AM

The off-season is still young

Liriano
Slowey
Mijares
Casilla
Valencia
Young
Thome
Dickey
Breslow
Ayala

etc etc


Today I learned that Jim Thome was a pitcher.

Also, look at the dates in the post you're quoting. What happened in 2008 isn't relevant to solidifying the 40-man for 2015.

#32 Craig Arko

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:49 AM

Maybe it's just me but driving up player prices doesn't sound like JR's modus operandi. He has always struck me as a guy who goes after a player because he wants him, not because he's trying to drive up the price or keep him out of a division rival's hands.

For good or bad, that's just the guy he seems to be. He doesn't come across as the slightest bit devious.


I think that's definitely been his history, but this seems like the year for trying different tactics, and he's showing a willingness to do that.

#33 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:50 AM

I think that's definitely been his history, but this seems like the year for trying different tactics, and he's showing a willingness to do that.


True. He does seem to be a very different animal this offseason.

#34 twinsajsf

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:52 AM

I'm fine with not getting Rajai Davis, especially on a 2-yr. deal. Let's let Hicks, Presley and Mastro fight it out as place holders until Buxton is ready, since we aren't likely to be in contention until 2015 anyway. We'll know more about these four, as well as Parmelee, Arcia and possibly Rosario after 2014, and with Willy coming off the books, we can decide then whether we need to invest in another outfielder.

#35 Seth Stohs

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:02 AM

Apparently if a free agent player wants to sign quickly, just tell me to write an article on them (AJP, Davis) and you'll sign by morning!

#36 Thrylos

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:06 AM

Apparently if a free agent player wants to sign quickly, just tell me to write an article on them (AJP, Davis) and you'll sign by morning!


Seth, why don't you right something about John Buck and about Bronson Arroyo while you are still hot?
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#37 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:19 AM

Fair enough, Thrylos. I over estimated his ability......doesn't matter now.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#38 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

Both Alex Presley and Darin Mastroianni hit just as well as (or better than) Rajai Davis. They both have speed, and I'd consider Mastroianni's baserunning to be more or less on the same level as Davis, though he has less of a track record. They're both considerably younger than Davis. And Mastroianni and Presley together cost less than Davis will.

I want nothing to do with this guy.


I put him on my blueprint wishlist, Just thought he'd be a nice stopgap before Hicks gets back to the club and then a nice 4th OF for a couple years. I think we either need to add an OF in FA or start Hicks in CF from the get-go again. Outfield defense is very important at TF and especially with the new pitchers added.

We cannot have an everyday outfields like this:
Willingham-Mastro-Arcia
Willingham-Pressley-Arcia
Willingham-Mastro-Parmelee
Willingham-Pressley-Parmelee
Willingham-Mastro-Doumit
Willingham-Pressley-Doumit
Willingham-Mastro-Colabello
Willingham-Pressley-Colabello
Mastro-Pressley-Arcia
Mastro-Pressley-Arcia
Arcia- Pressley- Doumit/Parmelee/Doumit

Okay, you get the point. We are in position to be one of these two options:
A) An outfield that is AWFUL defensively.
B) An outfield that is AWFUL offensively.

My preferred choice, if we don't add an OF would be to dump Doumit. This would guarantee he is not going to play any OF for us. Also allow Willingham to DH 70% of time. If this were able to happen, I'd be okay going like this:

LF: Mastro 50g, Pressley 70g, Willingham 25g, Plouffe 18g
CF: Hicks 155g, Pressley 8g
RF: Arcia 120g, Pressley 10g, Parmelee 25g, Mastro 8g
DH: Willingham 114g, Arcia 30g, Parmelee 19g

Hicks- 155 games total between OF/DH
Arcia- 150 games
Mastro- 58 games
Pressley- 88 games
Willingham- 139 games
Plouffe- 18 games
Parmelee- 44 games

Hopefully mid-year Sano is healthy and raking and pushes Plouffe into OF role. Also hopefully late in the year Buxton would move into CF shifting Hicks to LF and putting either Pressley or Mastro out of business, I think either would be fine as a 4th outfielder, so whoever is controllable for longer probably sticks around. (I'm guessing that would be Pressley?)

There are many benefits to that lineup.
1. You find out what we have in Hicks.
2. Find out if Pressley is able to stick as a stopgap/4th outfielder.
3. Find out if Arcia can be marginal in RF.
4. Hopefully build Willingham's value to trade at all-star break.
5. Should be a solid group defensively, with some potential for power.

#39 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:39 AM

BTW, I'd love to trade for Span, I believe his value is incredibly lower than last year.

#40 twinsfan34

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:52 AM

Davis is better than Mastro. Arguably offers more than Presley. Hits a career .294 split vs. lefties and would be the Twins only legitimate base stealing threat. He had a +6 runs for his rbaser (tied with Trout) last year. So if a game is close, did you see what Billy Hamilton did for the Reds last year in those last 13 games of the season? Baserunning matters, it's fun to watch, and it'll make relievers for the other team more likely to make mistake pitches or throw a ball away on a pickoffs, etc.

For $2.5M...2 years...not a big risk.

I agree with what Shane Wahl said.

Hicks needs to start unless he gives a lot of reasons why he shouldn't start. He raked in Spring Training last year...so it'll have to be what he has done to address specific holes - and largely, confidence.