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#1 mudcat14

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:55 AM

...could the Twins put a package together without Buxton or Sano that would be enough to entice the Rays to send Price our way? Would Ryan be willing to pony up the $20m/year that would be required to sign him long term?


Can't help but think that having a lead pipe cinch #1 Ace, to go along with freshly added starters Nolasco & Hughes would immediately change the outlook of the Twins fortunes. Would Willingham, Meyer and almost any 2-3 other prospects in the system be enough to make it happen?

I know it's a fantasy, but am curious if anyone thinks it would be worth it.

#2 Thrylos

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

I'd add Meyer to the Sano and Buxton list at this point. Matter of fact, I am not sure that Price's next 6 seasons (the amount of seasons the Twins have control of Meyer) will be better than Meyer's next 6 seasons. I'd actually think that opposite will happen.

The big issue with a Price (and Bailey) and another upcoming FA SP trade is to get them to sing a long term contract (like the Mets did with Santana) which will not cripple the team. In Price's case, I don't see that being a realistic possibility because it will take something like $5-6/100-130M, which the Twins should not do.

So I think that it is a no-go from the beginning...
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#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:03 PM

The Tigers would still probably edge out the Twins in the division with Price.

And at that point, what have you done? You've gone and pulled a Dayton Moore... Given up some top pieces of your farm to field a second place (or in Moore's case, third place) team.

#4 Halsey Hall

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:04 PM

I agree with thrylos, Meyer can't be traded. He's got a bright, long future.

#5 mudcat14

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

I'd add Meyer to the Sano and Buxton list at this point.


I had Meyer on the list initially, but didn't think it would be remotely possible without him included in a deal. The Rays are allegedly talking Tyjuan Walker with the M's, so since Stewart isn't eligible to be included our options are pretty limited in trying to match that arm.

I'm probably only intrigued by this scenario due to my concerns over the dearth of LH options the Twins have for the rotation over the next couple of years. Albers, Diamond & Duensing don't really blow my skirt up too much.

Edited by mudcat14, 07 December 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#6 Marta Shearing

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:03 PM

No thanks. His best years are prob already behind him. Spend the money elsewhere.

#7 Marta Shearing

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

You dont trade prospects when youre rebuilding. You trade them when you consider yourselves a world series team and youre one piece away.

#8 halfchest

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:19 PM

I think if you're willing to deal big time prospects for a guy like that you do it when your team is close already and that move may put you over the top. Say in two years if we're back battling for the division every year then we consider trading a group of top prospects for a guy like Price. Seems like most years there is a guy like this on the trade block. Shields, Cliff Lee, Greinke, now Price. Just seems like there is generally a team with an Ace getting more expensive that they're willing to flip for top prospects.

#9 cmb0252

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:23 PM

Short answer: no. Long answer: heck no. The Rays are not going to give Price away. You have to give quality to get quality.

#10 AM.

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

Not interested. He, unlike Anderson, would cost a king's ransom. Much rather try to sign Garza, trade for Anderson, or Bailey.

#11 DuluthFan

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:16 PM

The Twins could do something like this but will not due to their philosophy regarding long term contracts (especially towards pitchers).
Since a trade of this magnitude would require multiple prospects, the Twins would need to sign a player of this caliber to a big dollar long term contract (which they don't on principle do). The Twins would need a contract length long enough to cover the time that it would take to draft and develop replacement prospects. While the Twins currently have payroll space to accommodate a $20 million dollar pitcher if they wanted to, they don't usually sign contracts in the 7-10 year range for pitchers that someone of this caliber would ask for. A "Twins length" contract would not be long enough to draft and develop the prospects that were given up and be ready for the majors when the contract is over.

#12 Thrylos

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

I had Meyer on the list initially, but didn't think it would be remotely possible without him included in a deal. The Rays are allegedly talking Tyjuan Walker with the M's, so since Stewart isn't eligible to be included our options are pretty limited in trying to match that arm.

I'm probably only intrigued by this scenario due to my concerns over the dearth of LH options the Twins have for the rotation over the next couple of years. Albers, Diamond & Duensing don't really blow my skirt up too much.


I agree that the Twins need a lefty not named Diamond or Albers at this point. I'd rather see them go after someone like Capuano as a stop-gap for a couple of seasons if they have to. And the system is really poor as far as mid rotation plus LHSP prospects go.

I can only see Gonsalves fit the bill at this point, but he is still 2 years away of being able to buy beer for himself. Not sure about Darnell and Dean and Rogers; they look like 5-6 starters to me, much like Diamond and Albers. Melotakis is a question mark and Thorpe a baby.

That said, you cannot trade the only pitcher in your organization with Ace potential who is ringing the MLB doorbell and you can control for 6 years.
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#13 rico7961

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:27 PM

I like the thought of it. But the Twins are way better off letting their young talent develope. I'm sure only about 40-50% of our prospects turn out, but I wouldn't trade any of them and let it play out. I hate the growing pains, but it is the right way to build a team. Look at 1982 and 1999-2000, our patience really paid dividends in those years.

Edited by rico7961, 07 December 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#14 Thrylos

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:49 PM

Look at 1982 and 1999-2000, our patience really paid dividends in those years.


1982? Bruno, Gaetti, Hrbek, Viola were already in the majors, Puckett was a rookie in E-town, Gagne was a Yankee at the beginning of the season and players like Blyleven, Reardon and Gladden were with other teams. And it took 5 seasons for the Twins to win after 1982. The whole idea is for the Twins to build a world series champion for 2015-17. This is 2-4 years away.

1999-2000 the team was readying itself for contraction IIRC ;)
And they have not really won much this millennium, unless I am wrong. If you want mediocrity and you are fine with it, that's what you will get...
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#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:53 PM

1999-2000 the team was readying itself for contraction IIRC ;)
And they have not really won much this millennium, unless I am wrong. If you want mediocrity and you are fine with it, that's what you will get...


Division titles, multiple 90 win seasons, and reaching the playoffs are not mediocrity.

Those teams may not have been as good as you wanted them to be but under no definition of the word were they "mediocre".

#16 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:26 PM

You dont trade prospects when youre rebuilding. You trade them when you consider yourselves a world series team and youre one piece away.



I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not. I can't believe how much love this type of move gets on this board. When do you ever see a team that is 2-4 years away trade away top prospects for a guy with 2 years of control. And, for what, Price would make them a 500 team. It never happens. That should be a pretty clear indication if the wisdom of such a trade.

#17 Thrylos

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

Division titles, multiple 90 win seasons, and reaching the playoffs are not mediocrity.

Those teams may not have been as good as you wanted them to be but under no definition of the word were they "mediocre".


From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117
They finished first 5 times
They finished second 2 times
They finished third 2 times
They finished fourth 1 times
They finished fifth 3 times

They never won a pennant or a WS championship.
Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between. They were not awful, but they were mediocre. Cannot count the 90 win seasons only without counting the 90 loss seasons and reaching the post-season and winning only one series out of 7 should be a feather on nobody's cap.

I did not say awful. That would be the Pirates. But as a whole, the Twins have been mediocre this millennium (and they are trending down.)
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#18 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:59 PM

Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between.


No, it doesn't.

Mediocre: of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

If you want to talk mediocre, let's talk Blue Jays. Since 1995, they have won less than 70 games once and have never won 90 games. The very definition of mediocre.


From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117


Seriously. You're adding 2011-2013?

This conversation started by talking about the 1999-2001 teams and how they developed prospects. Between 2002-2006 (you know, immediately following the 2001 breakout season), the Twins had four 90 win seasons in five years.

Not mediocre.

#19 cmb0252

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:06 PM

So back to David price..... We are not getting Price without one of our top prospects. Period. The real question is are you willing to give up one of Buxton, Sano, or Meyer and 2-3 more prospects? Honestly I might do Sano+ if the Twins were one pitcher away and Price would sign an extension but we aren't.

#20 Monkeypaws

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:14 PM

From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117
They finished first 5 times
They finished second 2 times
They finished third 2 times
They finished fourth 1 times
They finished fifth 3 times

They never won a pennant or a WS championship.
Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between. They were not awful, but they were mediocre. Cannot count the 90 win seasons only without counting the 90 loss seasons and reaching the post-season and winning only one series out of 7 should be a feather on nobody's cap.

I did not say awful. That would be the Pirates. But as a whole, the Twins have been mediocre this millennium (and they are trending down.)


I'd say decent more than mediocre. They won a lot of divisions, and played some meaningful games. Toronto would be my definition of mediocre, or Washington.

#21 DocBauer

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:16 PM

Add me to the list on no.

To repeat what has already been stated, that one "ace" SP is not going to put us over the top immediately when several really high pieces to the puzzle have yet to arrive. And while many will be soon, or getting their feet wet, you have to be worried about decking performance as they begin to rise, and having such a huge financial commitment to that one player, Price in this case.

And as Thrylos stated earlier, over the next 5 or 6 seasons, not so sure Meyer won't prove to be as good or better, and much more cost effective.

Nolasco, Hughes, Gibsn and Meyer and TBD has me optimistic and down right tickled from the possibilities. Yes, we still need a LHSP in that group somewhere, whether from the system, FA or trade. Why Anderson scares me, but also thrills me with potential if over the injury hump.

#22 Blackjack

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:28 PM

So back to David price..... We are not getting Price without one of our top prospects. Period. The real question is are you willing to give up one of Buxton, Sano, or Meyer and 2-3 more prospects?


I was actually thinking about starting a post titled 'Buxton for Price'. Forget adding other prospects, would you trade Buxton for Price straight-up? Even if the Twins could sign him to 4 more years?

Personally I wouldn’t, Will Myers will haunt KC for the next 15 years, but some of the people on this board are sooooo desperate for a winning Twins team that I’m curious what they would say about ‘Buxton for Price?’

#23 DocBauer

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:40 PM

Nooo!

#24 kab21

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:44 PM

People are way too optimistic about Meyer if they think he IS going to match Price for a 6 yr period. With an extension in place I would have no problem trading Meyer and Rosario for Price. Meyer might be great but his injury history and control issues could result in him being one of many pitching prospects that just don't make it in the MLB.

It's funny but some people were upset because span was traded for a MiLB'er a couple of years away and wanted more immediate help. It would be extraordinarily awesome to flip Meyer a year later for a no doubt ace (very rare in the MLB).

Sano or Buxton are a little bit of a different story. I would hang on to these hitters because they are hitters and less likely to completely flop like a pitching prospect.

#25 mudcat14

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

People are way too optimistic about Meyer if they think he IS going to match Price for a 6 yr period. With an extension in place I would have no problem trading Meyer and Rosario for Price. Meyer might be great but his injury history and control issues could result in him being one of many pitching prospects that just don't make it in the MLB.

It's funny but some people were upset because span was traded for a MiLB'er a couple of years away and wanted more immediate help. It would be extraordinarily awesome to flip Meyer a year later for a no doubt ace (very rare in the MLB).

Sano or Buxton are a little bit of a different story. I would hang on to these hitters because they are hitters and less likely to completely flop like a pitching prospect.


Thank you. My point originally is that Price is a legitimate, true, #1 ACE. Period. He's 28 going into next season and has his peak 5-year span coming up. Clearly, all would depend on getting him signed to an extension that the club could live with (probably the most unlikely part of this scenario.) But I'd give up Meyer & 2-3 others in a heartbeat if it could happen.

#26 Trevor0333

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:57 PM

It's not going to happen without giving up 1 of Buxton, Meyer, or Sano. They just arent close enough to contend to justify it.

Honestly I think the Rays should trade Price straight up to the Orioles for Chris Davis. Orioles need a ace, Rays need a power hitter. Both players have 2 years control left & will get them an 1st round comp pick atleast if not resigned.

I know its the rays strategy to hoard prospects & picks but they can win it all with more offense & already have issues with having almost too many prospects.

#27 crapforks

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

Honestly I think the Rays should trade Price straight up to the Orioles for Chris Davis. Orioles need a ace, Rays need a power hitter. Both players have 2 years control left & will get them an 1st round comp pick atleast if not resigned.

I know its the rays strategy to hoard prospects & picks but they can win it all with more offense & already have issues with having almost too many prospects.

Davis and...?

#28 rico7961

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:55 PM

Some of the best "building block" trades of the past were some of our established players for prospects. The early 1980's trades of Roy Smalley and Butch Wynegar to the Yankees helped build our 1987 team. The 1999 trade of Eric Milton and the 2003 trade of AJ Pierzynski helped build our division winning teams of the 2000's. Can anybody name a trade of high level Twin Prospects that ever helped us win anything. You can argue the 1989 trade of Frank Viola for Tapani, Aguilera, West, Drummond won the 1991 WS for us. So trading high-level prospects for D Price would go more for winning the WS for TB than the Twins. Just look how the Vikings built the Cowboy dynasty of the 1990's in the Herschel Walker trade. No way do I trade for Price. Period.

#29 Zephrin

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:56 PM

And at that point, what have you done? You've gone and pulled a Dayton Moore... Given up some top pieces of your farm to field a second place (or in Moore's case, third place) team.


I totally agree with this sentiment. You don't make a blockbuster deal unless you think it is the piece that takes you to the promised land. (especially for a team like the Twins that can't throw money around like the Yanks and Dodgers to make up for a dearth of cheap talent coming up from the minors.)

Also, there is no scenario where the Twins get Price without at least one of Sano, Buxton or Meyer. I don't think a deal of Stewart, Rosario, Berrios and Thorpe would get it done.

Honestly, the Twins are still in a position where I would rather they trade for more high ceiling minor league pitchers than for an established ace like price.

#30 JP3700

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:43 PM

People are way too optimistic about Meyer if they think he IS going to match Price for a 6 yr period. With an extension in place I would have no problem trading Meyer and Rosario for Price. .


When comparing Price to Meyer over the next six years, you can't just use performance. Price will make about $30 million in the next two years and another $90-100 million in the following four, if signed to an extension. Meyer will make the league minimum for three years, followed by three arbitration years. There's quite a bit of surplus value there, if Meyer is anywhere close to his projection.

As far as the trade itself, the Twins are too low on the win curve for it to make sense. We need some of those prospects to fill out the roster, before we go for this type of move.