Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Never Happening, But...

  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

#1 mudcat14

mudcat14

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:55 AM

...could the Twins put a package together without Buxton or Sano that would be enough to entice the Rays to send Price our way? Would Ryan be willing to pony up the $20m/year that would be required to sign him long term?


Can't help but think that having a lead pipe cinch #1 Ace, to go along with freshly added starters Nolasco & Hughes would immediately change the outlook of the Twins fortunes. Would Willingham, Meyer and almost any 2-3 other prospects in the system be enough to make it happen?

I know it's a fantasy, but am curious if anyone thinks it would be worth it.

#2 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,712 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

I'd add Meyer to the Sano and Buxton list at this point. Matter of fact, I am not sure that Price's next 6 seasons (the amount of seasons the Twins have control of Meyer) will be better than Meyer's next 6 seasons. I'd actually think that opposite will happen.

The big issue with a Price (and Bailey) and another upcoming FA SP trade is to get them to sing a long term contract (like the Mets did with Santana) which will not cripple the team. In Price's case, I don't see that being a realistic possibility because it will take something like $5-6/100-130M, which the Twins should not do.

So I think that it is a no-go from the beginning...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#3 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,648 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:03 PM

The Tigers would still probably edge out the Twins in the division with Price.

And at that point, what have you done? You've gone and pulled a Dayton Moore... Given up some top pieces of your farm to field a second place (or in Moore's case, third place) team.

#4 Halsey Hall

Halsey Hall

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 953 posts
  • LocationCurrently Hammond Stadium

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:04 PM

I agree with thrylos, Meyer can't be traded. He's got a bright, long future.

#5 mudcat14

mudcat14

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

I'd add Meyer to the Sano and Buxton list at this point.


I had Meyer on the list initially, but didn't think it would be remotely possible without him included in a deal. The Rays are allegedly talking Tyjuan Walker with the M's, so since Stewart isn't eligible to be included our options are pretty limited in trying to match that arm.

I'm probably only intrigued by this scenario due to my concerns over the dearth of LH options the Twins have for the rotation over the next couple of years. Albers, Diamond & Duensing don't really blow my skirt up too much.

Edited by mudcat14, 07 December 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#6 Marta Shearing

Marta Shearing

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:03 PM

No thanks. His best years are prob already behind him. Spend the money elsewhere.

#7 Marta Shearing

Marta Shearing

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 417 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

You dont trade prospects when youre rebuilding. You trade them when you consider yourselves a world series team and youre one piece away.

#8 halfchest

halfchest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 259 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:19 PM

I think if you're willing to deal big time prospects for a guy like that you do it when your team is close already and that move may put you over the top. Say in two years if we're back battling for the division every year then we consider trading a group of top prospects for a guy like Price. Seems like most years there is a guy like this on the trade block. Shields, Cliff Lee, Greinke, now Price. Just seems like there is generally a team with an Ace getting more expensive that they're willing to flip for top prospects.

#9 cmb0252

cmb0252

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,817 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:23 PM

Short answer: no. Long answer: heck no. The Rays are not going to give Price away. You have to give quality to get quality.

#10 AM.

AM.

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 394 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

Not interested. He, unlike Anderson, would cost a king's ransom. Much rather try to sign Garza, trade for Anderson, or Bailey.

#11 DuluthFan

DuluthFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 133 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:16 PM

The Twins could do something like this but will not due to their philosophy regarding long term contracts (especially towards pitchers).
Since a trade of this magnitude would require multiple prospects, the Twins would need to sign a player of this caliber to a big dollar long term contract (which they don't on principle do). The Twins would need a contract length long enough to cover the time that it would take to draft and develop replacement prospects. While the Twins currently have payroll space to accommodate a $20 million dollar pitcher if they wanted to, they don't usually sign contracts in the 7-10 year range for pitchers that someone of this caliber would ask for. A "Twins length" contract would not be long enough to draft and develop the prospects that were given up and be ready for the majors when the contract is over.

#12 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,712 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

I had Meyer on the list initially, but didn't think it would be remotely possible without him included in a deal. The Rays are allegedly talking Tyjuan Walker with the M's, so since Stewart isn't eligible to be included our options are pretty limited in trying to match that arm.

I'm probably only intrigued by this scenario due to my concerns over the dearth of LH options the Twins have for the rotation over the next couple of years. Albers, Diamond & Duensing don't really blow my skirt up too much.


I agree that the Twins need a lefty not named Diamond or Albers at this point. I'd rather see them go after someone like Capuano as a stop-gap for a couple of seasons if they have to. And the system is really poor as far as mid rotation plus LHSP prospects go.

I can only see Gonsalves fit the bill at this point, but he is still 2 years away of being able to buy beer for himself. Not sure about Darnell and Dean and Rogers; they look like 5-6 starters to me, much like Diamond and Albers. Melotakis is a question mark and Thorpe a baby.

That said, you cannot trade the only pitcher in your organization with Ace potential who is ringing the MLB doorbell and you can control for 6 years.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#13 rico7961

rico7961

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:27 PM

I like the thought of it. But the Twins are way better off letting their young talent develope. I'm sure only about 40-50% of our prospects turn out, but I wouldn't trade any of them and let it play out. I hate the growing pains, but it is the right way to build a team. Look at 1982 and 1999-2000, our patience really paid dividends in those years.

Edited by rico7961, 07 December 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#14 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,712 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:49 PM

Look at 1982 and 1999-2000, our patience really paid dividends in those years.


1982? Bruno, Gaetti, Hrbek, Viola were already in the majors, Puckett was a rookie in E-town, Gagne was a Yankee at the beginning of the season and players like Blyleven, Reardon and Gladden were with other teams. And it took 5 seasons for the Twins to win after 1982. The whole idea is for the Twins to build a world series champion for 2015-17. This is 2-4 years away.

1999-2000 the team was readying itself for contraction IIRC ;)
And they have not really won much this millennium, unless I am wrong. If you want mediocrity and you are fine with it, that's what you will get...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#15 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,648 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:53 PM

1999-2000 the team was readying itself for contraction IIRC ;)
And they have not really won much this millennium, unless I am wrong. If you want mediocrity and you are fine with it, that's what you will get...


Division titles, multiple 90 win seasons, and reaching the playoffs are not mediocrity.

Those teams may not have been as good as you wanted them to be but under no definition of the word were they "mediocre".

#16 Major Leauge Ready

Major Leauge Ready

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 523 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:26 PM

You dont trade prospects when youre rebuilding. You trade them when you consider yourselves a world series team and youre one piece away.



I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not. I can't believe how much love this type of move gets on this board. When do you ever see a team that is 2-4 years away trade away top prospects for a guy with 2 years of control. And, for what, Price would make them a 500 team. It never happens. That should be a pretty clear indication if the wisdom of such a trade.

#17 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,712 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

Division titles, multiple 90 win seasons, and reaching the playoffs are not mediocrity.

Those teams may not have been as good as you wanted them to be but under no definition of the word were they "mediocre".


From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117
They finished first 5 times
They finished second 2 times
They finished third 2 times
They finished fourth 1 times
They finished fifth 3 times

They never won a pennant or a WS championship.
Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between. They were not awful, but they were mediocre. Cannot count the 90 win seasons only without counting the 90 loss seasons and reaching the post-season and winning only one series out of 7 should be a feather on nobody's cap.

I did not say awful. That would be the Pirates. But as a whole, the Twins have been mediocre this millennium (and they are trending down.)
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#18 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,648 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:59 PM

Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between.


No, it doesn't.

Mediocre: of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

If you want to talk mediocre, let's talk Blue Jays. Since 1995, they have won less than 70 games once and have never won 90 games. The very definition of mediocre.


From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117


Seriously. You're adding 2011-2013?

This conversation started by talking about the 1999-2001 teams and how they developed prospects. Between 2002-2006 (you know, immediately following the 2001 breakout season), the Twins had four 90 win seasons in five years.

Not mediocre.

#19 cmb0252

cmb0252

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,817 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:06 PM

So back to David price..... We are not getting Price without one of our top prospects. Period. The real question is are you willing to give up one of Buxton, Sano, or Meyer and 2-3 more prospects? Honestly I might do Sano+ if the Twins were one pitcher away and Price would sign an extension but we aren't.

#20 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 819 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:14 PM

From 2000 on the Twins were the definition of mediocrity cumulatively:

Their W-L record was 1152-1117
They finished first 5 times
They finished second 2 times
They finished third 2 times
They finished fourth 1 times
They finished fifth 3 times

They never won a pennant or a WS championship.
Mediocre means some good, some bad and some in between. They were not awful, but they were mediocre. Cannot count the 90 win seasons only without counting the 90 loss seasons and reaching the post-season and winning only one series out of 7 should be a feather on nobody's cap.

I did not say awful. That would be the Pirates. But as a whole, the Twins have been mediocre this millennium (and they are trending down.)


I'd say decent more than mediocre. They won a lot of divisions, and played some meaningful games. Toronto would be my definition of mediocre, or Washington.