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What about the offense?

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#41 Linus

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

I would kick the tires on Corey Hart. He wants to go back to the Brewers and play first but they don't seem to be pursuing him hard. He has played the outfield and, if healthy, could provide some good right handed pop. Stick him in left (he can't be worse than Willingham out there) for a couple of years until Buxton is up and we have our long term outfield set.

#42 Willihammer

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

Seriously which free agents on the offensive side to people want the Twins to sign? Cano? Haha, yeah right. Drew? Pass. Choo? Could fit but doesn't really fill a need. I just don't see many good fits from free agency. Maybe I'm forgetting someone.


Drew would be a good pickup IMO.

Twins have too many sub-.300 OBP batters in the bottom half. Those guys are rally killers. Drew might be able to get on base at least and keep a rally going.

#43 stringer bell

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:58 PM

Of all the names mentioned here, I probably like Michael Young best for the Twins. He's had a good long career as a hitter and has played several positions (including third) which could keep him in the lineup almost every day.

#44 Jim Crikket

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:09 PM

I guess what it boils down to, for me, is this: I don't see logic in spending any significant money this off-season on any player, regardless of position, that you wouldn't project as a core contributor for at least two (and better yet, three) years and I think that rules out almost anyone you'd sign for his bat.

Now, if the FO looked over the available FAs and their projected internal options and decided there was a FA that is worthy of a 3 year deal (or at least a 2 yr + club option deal) at a position they don't see a strong internal candidate likely to be starting in the Majors by 2016, I'm good with that kind of signing.

If the FO wanted to simply cut ties with Willingham or Doumit and sign a real upgrade for 3+ years, OK.

I just don't see that as being likely.

That being the case, I'm back to looking at additional starting pitchers. Because (a) there are still guys on the market that would be good signings to a 3+ year deal, and (B) I think doing so is within the realm of possibility for this FO.

I simply see mid-season as a more likely time frame for the possible addition of bats. You'll know whether current vets can be moved in trades, you'll know a little more about how your top position prospects are developing and what their realistic MLB times of arrival might be, you'll have a better sense of exactly when the Twins can realistically compete for the Division again and you'll have a much better idea of exactly what positions need to be upgraded to get you there.
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#45 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:31 PM

So punt on this year, if I can summarize your post.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#46 cmb0252

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

So punt on this year, if I can summarize your post.


Punt the year? They just spent $73M on two pitchers and are rumored to be looking for another. They offered AJ a two year deal but he took a one year deal from Boston. They were heavy on Salty but his medicals scared them away from a three year deal. I'm confused how they are punting the year.

Are they punting because they won't give a three year deal to a often injured Drew (which would also cost a draft pick)? Because they aren't offering Choo or Cano big time contracts because they like what they have in the minors or don't like the price tags? I personally just don't see many fits which would be major upgrades.

#47 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

I haven't read this entire thread. So, sorry about that.

Right now, I think that Eric Fryer is going to be the opening day catcher. You know that I despise this idea, but there it is. There. It. Is.

I think they might be really cautious with Hicks, Arcia, and Pinto, and all start in AAA. Willingham-Presley-Parmelee, with Doumit DHing, Mauer at first, Dozier at second, Florimon at SS, Plouffe at third, and, ahem, Eric Fryer catching.

Here are two alternative scenarios that I would do instead, depending on Willingham/Doumit trades:

1. Willingham and Doumit start 2014 with the Twins:

Dozier, 2B
Mauer, 1B
Willingham, DH
Arcia, RF
Plouffe, 3B
Pinto, C
Hicks, CF
Presley, LF
Florimon, SS

with Doumit, Herrmann, Escobar, and Parmelee on the bench.

2. Trade Willingham and Doumit (preferred)

Arcia is primary DH, but still gets OF time. D. Romero replaces Doumit. Colabello is added.

"Shane, we have these good starters now . . ."

Well, the starters add 4 wins, hopefully. I think the Twins might get over 75 wins. I think asking for a fully competitive team is silly in 2014. I have never taken this attitude before. Anyway, I would rather have young guys play RIGHT NOW to get their act together now. The veteran pitchers are there into the future and the young pitchers will be arriving soon. There is no need to clog the 2014 roster with aging position players who aren't going to be on the team after 2014! That is the opposite of what should occur. 2014 can now be seen--as opposed to another total disaster like 2012 and 2013--as the year of actually building a foundation for the team of the future. This future team has Sano, Buxton, Arcia, Hicks, Rosario, Dozier, and Pinto surrounding Mauer. It has Meyer, Gibson, and May/a fast rising starter surrounding Nolasco and Hughes.

#48 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

Punt the year? They just spent $73M on two pitchers and are rumored to be looking for another. They offered AJ a two year deal but he took a one year deal from Boston. They were heavy on Salty but his medicals scared them away from a three year deal. I'm confused how they are punting the year.

Are they punting because they won't give a three year deal to a often injured Drew (which would also cost a draft pick)? Because they aren't offering Choo or Cano big time contracts because they like what they have in the minors or don't like the price tags? I personally just don't see many fits which would be major upgrades.


You are suggesting adding no offense, to a team that was one of the worst in baseball in runs scored, correct? You and others are also saying that the pitchers (and I agree) were signed not just for this year, but for several years, correct?

The year will be better, I believe, with these pitchers. But they were awful offensively last year, and adding no one is unlikely to make it much better, isn't it?

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#49 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

If you could dump Doumit. We could sign Kendry Morales. He would DH and back-up Mauer.

#50 jokin

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:19 PM

I haven't read this entire thread. So, sorry about that.

Right now, I think that Eric Fryer is going to be the opening day catcher. You know that I despise this idea, but there it is. There. It. Is.

I think they might be really cautious with Hicks, Arcia, and Pinto, and all start in AAA. Willingham-Presley-Parmelee, with Doumit DHing, Mauer at first, Dozier at second, Florimon at SS, Plouffe at third, and, ahem, Eric Fryer catching.

Here are two alternative scenarios that I would do instead, depending on Willingham/Doumit trades:

1. Willingham and Doumit start 2014 with the Twins:

Dozier, 2B
Mauer, 1B
Willingham, DH
Arcia, RF
Plouffe, 3B
Pinto, C
Hicks, CF
Presley, LF
Florimon, SS

with Doumit, Herrmann, Escobar, and Parmelee on the bench.

2. Trade Willingham and Doumit (preferred)

Arcia is primary DH, but still gets OF time. D. Romero replaces Doumit. Colabello is added.

"Shane, we have these good starters now . . ."

Well, the starters add 4 wins, hopefully. I think the Twins might get over 75 wins. I think asking for a fully competitive team is silly in 2014. I have never taken this attitude before. Anyway, I would rather have young guys play RIGHT NOW to get their act together now. The veteran pitchers are there into the future and the young pitchers will be arriving soon. There is no need to clog the 2014 roster with aging position players who aren't going to be on the team after 2014! That is the opposite of what should occur. 2014 can now be seen--as opposed to another total disaster like 2012 and 2013--as the year of actually building a foundation for the team of the future. This future team has Sano, Buxton, Arcia, Hicks, Rosario, Dozier, and Pinto surrounding Mauer. It has Meyer, Gibson, and May/a fast rising starter surrounding Nolasco and Hughes.


Continuation of the 3-catcher alignment (4 counting Mauer in a pinch) drives me to distraction- need more speed and positonal flexibility in the back-up roles, especially if they inevitably return to the 13 man pitching staff yet again.

I concur that Pinto, Romero, Meyer, Mays and Hicks will all start in AAA, but barring a disastrous Spring Training, it's hard to imagine that Arcia will be held back (the one possible rationale for holding Arcia back in AAA would be the vacant roster spot needing filling created by Rosario's suspension). Similarly, I can see Eric Fryer on the 25-man to open the season, but I'm willing to wager that the Twins will pick up one of the low tier C FAs to be the opening day starter. (They should TRADE for Matt Wieters instead, motivated sellers in Baltimore).

They do need to showcase Willingham and Doumit to maximize their value, so they will be given pretty large and regular roles at the season's outset (it's just how the Twins FO and Gardy roll). It's arguable under this scenario that besides adding a veteran catcher, another good veteran hitter be added on a short-term deal with the idea of promoting the new wave in June, July and August with the understanding that some or all of these vets are traded to facilitate the move. Unfortunately, TR has had little success at moving veterans in in-season trades for much value (Butera is the recent exception to that rule). This would clear the way for a second-half lineup featuring all the usual suspects/top prospects (which hopefully would also include Buxton, but probably not Rosario).

#51 jokin

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

If you could dump Doumit. We could sign Kendry Morales. He would DH and back-up Mauer.


Concur. Morales or Hart should be at the top of the hitting shopping list!

#52 Jim Crikket

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

You are suggesting adding no offense, to a team that was one of the worst in baseball in runs scored, correct? You and others are also saying that the pitchers (and I agree) were signed not just for this year, but for several years, correct?

The year will be better, I believe, with these pitchers. But they were awful offensively last year, and adding no one is unlikely to make it much better, isn't it?


You admit that the pitching additions means, "the year will be better." How is that punting on the year?

I'm saying the Twins hands are somewhat tied and they're simply not going to just jettison Willingham, Plouffe, Florimon and Doumit, the result being there are no significant offensive FAs that make sense during the off-season. I'm saying that doesn't mean you don't keep shopping for starting pitching. I'm also saying that you see how things evolve in to June and July and then take another look at what might make sense.

If that's punting to you, OK fine. I disagree.

Edited by Jim Crikket, 05 December 2013 - 02:29 PM.

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#53 spycake

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Concur. Morales or Hart should be at the top of the hitting shopping list!


Just FYI, Kendrys Morales was made a qualifying offer by the Mariners, so signing him would cost the Twins a draft pick.

#54 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

Jokin, in my ideal scenario, it's just Pinto and Herrmann as the catchers. Herrmann improved over his 2012 brief stint, and I think he can provide average defense there, above average defense in the corner OF, and still be a potential .680-710 OPS guy overall. He just has to limit the strikeouts.

How much of the 2013 season was spent with a 13-man pitching staff? They absolutely should not have to do that this year. At all.

#55 cmb0252

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:34 PM

You are suggesting adding no offense, to a team that was one of the worst in baseball in runs scored, correct? You and others are also saying that the pitchers (and I agree) were signed not just for this year, but for several years, correct?

The year will be better, I believe, with these pitchers. But they were awful offensively last year, and adding no one is unlikely to make it much better, isn't it?


Not at all. Its not my money so I'm all for the Twins spending money. What I'm saying is I don't see a realistic offensive upgrade on the free agent market. Key word:realistic. After moving Mauer to first the biggest need was to fill C. They were incredibly aggressive trying to fill it but it didn't work out. Time to move on. Which free agent, realistically, could Ryan sign that would greatly help this team? Personally at this point I hope the Twins start looking into trades to try and fill needs.

#56 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:39 PM

I have to ask, but what exactly do people see in Herrman? I think I'd rather go with Pinto and Doumit (who at least has the potential to hit well there) with Mauer in an emergency role and keep Herrman off the roster alltogether. You still need to get at bats for some other guys to see where they will be, and all Herrman is going to do is clog up a roster spot.

#57 Linus

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:41 PM

My main concern would be not adding somebody where there is a prospect likely to take over soon, 3rd base for example. Also, one reason I'm not worried about Pressly starting in center - chances are Hicks is playing there by the end of the summer. However, we could use a productive corner outfielder because Willingham should be dealt as he is in the last year of his contract and he really just needs to be a DH, and the next outfielder up (Buxton) is likely two years away.

I also would let Doumit catch (I know, let the defensive / framing ridicule begin). Mainly I am doing this so we can showcase him and deal him but also so Pinto can start at AAA along with Hermann. Fryer can ride the pine 6 days a week.

#58 jokin

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:43 PM

Just FYI, Kendrys Morales was made a qualifying offer by the Mariners, so signing him would cost the Twins a draft pick.


Oh, Snap!:angry: Good catch, spy.

Nice chess move by the M's. Pass.

#59 Linus

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:44 PM

I have to ask, but what exactly do people see in Herrman? I think I'd rather go with Pinto and Doumit (who at least has the potential to hit well there) with Mauer in an emergency role and keep Herrman off the roster alltogether. You still need to get at bats for some other guys to see where they will be, and all Herrman is going to do is clog up a roster spot.


I think Pinto and Hermann both start at AAA. They need to develop as I could see them being a great catching tandem for a long time. One bats right, the other left. The likely backup also can play other positions - almost an ideal situation if they develop and take the next step.

#60 jokin

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:45 PM

I have to ask, but what exactly do people see in Herrman? I think I'd rather go with Pinto and Doumit (who at least has the potential to hit well there) with Mauer in an emergency role and keep Herrman off the roster alltogether. You still need to get at bats for some other guys to see where they will be, and all Herrman is going to do is clog up a roster spot.


Yup. As long as he has options left, stash Hermann in Roc. as your emergency call-up catcher. Time for Gardy to relinquish the multiple-catcher safety blanket once and for all.