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J.P. Arencibia

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#1 iastfan112

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:54 AM

Convince me why signing him as the 2nd catcher would be a bad idea. Was terrible offensively last year but the previous 2 years were decent from a catcher. Right around the league average for % thrown out and was well above average in pitch framing last year.

#2 Brandon

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:47 AM

He looks to be the third best option of whats left of the free agent market. A slight downgrade from Navarro but has enough power to sign.

#3 Twins Daily Admin

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:07 AM

My general impression of him has been good, and someone pointed out that he's really good at pitch framing. I'd need to look closer at that, I guess.

But boy, does he look clueless at the plate. You would think a good catch-framer would know the value of working the count. Here are his K/BB ratios for the last three years:

2011 - 133/36 = 3.7
2012 - 108/18 = 6
2013 - 148/18 = 8.2

Wow. THAT is impressive. And you ate a whole wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

#4 markos

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:23 AM

Convince me why signing him as the 2nd catcher would be a bad idea. Was terrible offensively last year but the previous 2 years were decent from a catcher. Right around the league average for % thrown out and was well above average in pitch framing last year.


I would prefer him (assuming he is reasonable cheap) backing up Pinto over a expensive, long-term deal for Saltalamacchia.

#5 whatever54

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:37 AM

With AJ off the market, and Salty being a pretty expensive option, Arencipia looks like he's worth a good look at.

#6 TKGuy

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:43 AM

So you're saying his cluelessness equals Drew Butera territory? I would take a flyer, he should be cheap and then we can turn our attention towards another starter, like Garza (in my dreams)

#7 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:44 AM

My general impression of him has been good, and someone pointed out that he's really good at pitch framing. I'd need to look closer at that, I guess.

But boy, does he look clueless at the plate. You would think a good catch-framer would know the value of working the count. Here are his K/BB ratios for the last three years:

2011 - 133/36 = 3.7
2012 - 108/18 = 6
2013 - 148/18 = 8.2

Wow. THAT is impressive. And you ate a whole wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? I'm not even mad. That's amazing.


Best use of that quote that I've seen in quite some time.

#8 BigTrane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:51 AM

What's his throwout %, exactly?
Fast moving story- was just looking at his offensive numbers compared with AJ and didn't see the upside- except being cheap and young. He brings nothing to the plate.
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

#9 pierre75275

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:52 AM

With a career .207 average and .193 last year I doubt that will improve much. Yes he does have good power but I am not confinced that will play all that well at Target Field. I would rather they let Pinto take his lumps. Or get "salty" even tho I think he will get paid more then he is worth

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:52 AM

Convince me why signing him as the 2nd catcher would be a bad idea. Was terrible offensively last year but the previous 2 years were decent from a catcher. Right around the league average for % thrown out and was well above average in pitch framing last year.



Herrmann is potentially better with the stick, is more versatile, has more upside, as a LHB provides complement to Pinto, and was the Twins' organization best defensive catcher according to BA.
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#11 mike wants wins

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:58 AM

He's awful at his job. I don't understand why people are so afraid of giving a rookie a shot. Unless you think they'll compete next year, in which case you go sign a good catcher, not an awful one.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#12 iastfan112

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:00 AM

What's his throwout %, exactly?
Fast moving story- was just looking at his offensive numbers compared with AJ and didn't see the upside- except being cheap and young. He brings nothing to the plate.


Mid to upper 20% range, right around league average. If you suspect last year was an anomaly he put up a couple seasons of .700 OPS which is respectable for a catcher. The other advantage he has over some of the other options is that unlike an AJ or Salty you he'd probably sign as backup/given chance to win the job out of ST, letting the team see if Pinto has a future here.

Edited by iastfan112, 03 December 2013 - 09:05 AM.


#13 BigTrane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:24 AM

Ok, thanks for the info!

If you suspect he's OK at the plate and no disadvantage behind it- and cheap to boot- then he's worth a look. Not like there's a lot of options now. AJ signed with Boston.
Salty was offered 2 years, but turned it down (what I gather)- he wants 3 or 4. So for me, short term + a guy willing to platoon some is a big plus. That ain't Salty.

What about the "intangibles" like working with pitchers, framing pitches, etc?
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

#14 cmathewson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

Pass. The Blue Jays signed the fourth best catcher on the FA market so they could trade a guy with a 59 OPS+ with questionable defensive skills. He's not even worth a 40-man roster spot, which is why Toronto is trying to trade him. Fryer is a better option.
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#15 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:31 AM

He's awful at his job. I don't understand why people are so afraid of giving a rookie a shot. Unless you think they'll compete next year, in which case you go sign a good catcher, not an awful one.


My problem is with plan B. We heard the same about Hicks and you can recall the disaster that was our CF situation last year I'm sure.

#16 beckmt

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:31 AM

Do not see signing him as a bad move. Pinto needs a mentor for training in the art of catching.

#17 johnnydakota

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:35 AM

For Cheap and usable , Me thinks it was Baltimore who got that piece in Johnny Monell,
Left handed catcher with decent defensive numbers and power , yes a tad old for a minor leaque catcher, but look who was blocking him....

#18 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:35 AM

If the Twins sign a catcher that is that terrible offensively, then it better be for a superior defensive catcher a la one of the Molina Bros. This guy isnt even in Butera's league defensively and is similar with the bat. No thanks.

#19 Dance with Disco Dan

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Don't be seduced by the HRs and selected defensive stats. Least season, Arencibia was an offensive blackhole of epic proportions. As mentioned above, his OPS+ was 59 with 100 denoting league average. Mauer had a terrific year and booked a 144 OPS +. So, basically, Arencibia was worse than the average catcher at about the same magnitude that Mauer was better.

His terrible .227 OBP was well earned as he only managed 18 walks in 497 PAs. Delmon Young heard about that and said, "J.P. needs to work the count."

In a recent piece, Keith Law described him as a below-average defensive catcher which, if accurate, means he is not going to save runs with his glove.

The only way adding J.P. is acceptable is if he is cut by Toronto and picked off the scrap heap. Even then, my abiding hope is that the Twins forget he exists and run with what they have or pursue other options.

Edited by Dance with Disco Dan, 03 December 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#20 tmerrickkeller

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

I agree with those who are coming to the conclusions that there are not very many outside options for the Twins at this point. Salty wants too many years and is not that highly-rated defensively (though this team will need to score more runs in order to compete); the remainder are in the mode of either Doumit (no D, reasonable O) or Butera (no O, reasonable D).

Signing any new catcher to be a primary option also blocks Pinto, and I think he deserves a shot to be a regular. We have either Hermann or Fryer, and it is not unreasonable to think that between Pinto and Hermann/Fryer we could cover the vast majority of games, and leave Doumit to DH regularly. Any regular watcher of the Twins will note that Doumit improves substantially with consistent at-bats.

It also appears (every year) that there are catchers available at the end of spring training if we desperately need to plug a hole. This isn't the highest priority for this team right now, and the options outside the organization do not mandate immediate action.