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Rotation for 2014

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#1 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:10 PM

So, are they better?
#1 Nolasco
#2-Correia
#3-Deduno
#4-Hughes
#5-Pelfrey (if they resign him) (or maybe Diamond, Albers...ect)

If Dedunoand Correia continue what they did in 2013 and Nolasco transitions from the NL to AL well this could be a respectable rotation.

Not that I think the rotation will be playoff potential but at least I see major league competent starters for 2014.

#2 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

My guess is that it goes down something like this:

No more FA pitchers are signed.

One or two of Duensing, Burton, Fien, Swarzak are traded.

Gibson stays in the minors to start the season.

Hendriks, Deduno, Worley, Diamond, Johnson fight for two rotation spots and at least one more slides into the bullpen.

That way the guys out of options get one more shot at redemption, Gibson waits to get called up when one inevitably falters, and the Twins pick up more organizational depth by dishing off a reliever or two.

#3 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

I'm guessing they don't sign anyone else for the rotation so I think that you may be right about the last two spots in the rotation. However, if Deduno looks good in ST this year he has to be a lock.

#4 PseudoSABR

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

I think RP's take is pretty accurate. Though the Twins could add a reclamation like Santana or Floyd as well. The Twins are stubborn to give up on players, so I suspect Diamond, Worley, Deduno all to make the club even if not in the rotation. That Diamond lacks options makes Duensing expendable, imo.

#5 mike wants wins

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Why leave Gibson down, again? I don't get the love of Diamond and Johnson by them (if it goes down like you say). It's not like Kyle is young. Move Diamond to long relief. Put Gibson in the rotation day one, and have Diamond/Worley/Hendriks/random guy as your plan B/C/D. Oh, and Meyer in the middle of the year.
Lighten up Francis....

#6 PseudoSABR

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

Why leave Gibson down, again?

Because he was awful at the ML-level, and many of the other guys are out of options. If healthy, he'll end up making 25 starts next year, don't worry.

#7 Willihammer

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:35 PM

#5-Pelfrey (if they resign him) (or maybe Diamond, Albers...ect).


I like it a lot better with Pelfrey there instead of the others. Too bad that rumor mill seems to have stopped.

#8 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:36 PM

Because he was awful at the ML-level, and many of the other guys are out of options. If healthy, he'll end up making 25 starts next year, don't worry.


Gibson still looks like he needs to marinate some and like you said, others are out of options. Every year you have starters get injured or end up being a trainwreck so I'm sure Gibson will have the opportunity to pitch quite a bit in the majors next year if he does well at AAA.

Edited by mcrow, 02 December 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#9 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:38 PM

I like it a lot better with Pelfrey there instead of the others. Too bad that rumor mill seems to have stopped.


Yeah, I do as well. He was pretty solid for a 5th starter if you look at the second half of the season.

#10 Shane Wahl

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:49 PM

It would be a mistake for Gibson to be in AAA.

#11 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:52 PM

It would be a mistake for Gibson to be in AAA.



Not sure why people believe that given that he hasn't proven on the major league level that he's better than any of the guys with no options left.

#12 Marta Shearing

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

Dump Duensing and put Diamond in his role. I never want to see Diamond start another game. Ever.

#13 Trevor0333

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:22 PM

Worley will not make the team & be DFA'd after ST. Diamond will make the team in the long relief spot start role. I'd rather they moved Duensing allowing Theilbar & Albers to be the main lhp out of the pen.

I don't think Diamond can cut it. I'd rather see Tonkin, Pressley, or even Achter & Jones out there. They won't give up on him yet though. I wish they'd move Burton, Duensing, & Doumit. I'd rather see some of these guys break in on lower leverage roles in the majors.

Gibson will be given the chance to win a job out of ST & I think he will. He was pretty good last year until he got up there in innings which is normal for players after TJ.

What I expect:
Nolasco, Hughes, Corriea, Deduno, Gibson

Perkins, Fien, Burton, Swarzak, Duensing, Diamond, Theilbar.

What I'd do:
Nolasco, Hughes, Corriea, Deduno, Gibson

Perkins, Swarzak, Fien, Theilbar, Albers, Pressley, Tonkin

Trading Diamond & Worley to a team like the Astros. Then Burton & Duensing to a contender. Also moving Corriea at the deadline for Meyer.

#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:56 PM

Worley will not make the team & be DFA'd after ST.


That would be such a colossal mistake. Worley is one month older than Gibson and had success as recently as 2012.

#15 halfchest

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:16 PM

That would be such a colossal mistake. Worley is one month older than Gibson and had success as recently as 2012.


That's a really interesting/important take on Worley. I loved the trade with him coming over last year with May. Was obviously disappointed with his year but given his age/prior success it's hard to not give him another shot. I think most are right about Gibson starting out in AAA. That or I could see a guy like Worley or Diamond (out of options talent) get a phantom injury out of spring training to keep 'em around til a spot opens up. I'd really like one more look at Worley before shipping him off. At the very least maybe he could be part of a package for a better starter (homer bailey?) Obviously a small part of the deal but still use him for something.

#16 pierre75275

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:32 PM

I think the twins need a lefty in the rotation. If i am right...that means one of Diamond Albers or Johnson. and no i dont think the twins sign any more free agent starters

#17 LewFordLives

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:35 PM

I see absolutely no reason to resign Pelfrey. Apart from the fact he was terrible in 2013, he doesn't project as a long-term solution to the rotation. Why not give Diamond and Worley another shot? Last year aside, they've shown they can get big league hitters out, and if they can get straightened out they would be under Twins control for a few more years. JUST SAY NO TO PELFREY!

#18 iastfan112

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:50 PM

Not sure why people believe that given that he hasn't proven on the major league level that he's better than any of the guys with no options left.


He's a much more highly regarded prospect vs any of the other guys, he's pitched 40 games in AAA and he's 26 years old. Sending him back to AAA does nothing for him or the Twins, given his talent, he needs to sink or swim in the MLB.

#19 Willihammer

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:31 PM

I see absolutely no reason to resign Pelfrey. Apart from the fact he was terrible in 2013, he doesn't project as a long-term solution to the rotation. Why not give Diamond and Worley another shot? Last year aside, they've shown they can get big league hitters out, and if they can get straightened out they would be under Twins control for a few more years. JUST SAY NO TO PELFREY!


He was basically Derek Lowe from 08 up to his TJ in early 2012. He tried accelerating his return but turns out he needed 16 months to recover just like everyone else. After that point, he picked up right where he left off. I fully expect him to put together a 190 IP 4.3 ERA season again. Plus, he'll be 30, which is on the younger side. So unless the Twins are going to make a run at Garza, Santana, or Tanaka, they should be all over that IMO. It would sure beat watching Pedro Hernandez pitch again.

Edited by Willihammer, 02 December 2013 - 05:33 PM.


#20 mcrow

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

I see absolutely no reason to resign Pelfrey. Apart from the fact he was terrible in 2013, he doesn't project as a long-term solution to the rotation. Why not give Diamond and Worley another shot? Last year aside, they've shown they can get big league hitters out, and if they can get straightened out they would be under Twins control for a few more years. JUST SAY NO TO PELFREY!


Pelfrey looked pretty good (for a 4-5th starter) in the last half of the season. Might be he was getting a little stronger as his arm was getting more live with more time.

#21 ScottyB

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

If we can get Sulbaran for Butera, there must be other decent prospects we can get who don't need to be on the 40-man roster. We need to clear space and remove guys without options.

What TR needs to do in the next 2 weeks -

Trade Worley to the NL for a prospect or two, he's more well suited to that league. Trade Duensing and put Diamond in his place in the bullpen. Trade Swarzak and put Hendricks in his spot in the bullpen. Trade Burton or Fien with the remaining guy taking over as setup guy. Leaving the bullpen looking like this: Perkins; Burton/Fien; Diamond; Hendricks; Theilbar; Tonkin; and one other. (Pick from Pressly/Oliveros/Ibarra or if we pick up another starter maybe Deduno). Rotation should be Nolasco; Hughes; Correia (untill he's traded at the deadline with Meyer taking his place); Deduno and Gibson. As I said slip Deduno into the pen if we sign another starter (unless the starter is Pelfrey, then let Pelfrey and Deduno fight it out).

If we do pick up AJ in the next 2 weeks, immediately trade Doumit, he becomes superfluous. AJ and Pinto would platoon with Herrmann as additional backup.

#22 crapforks

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:56 PM

To those who want Diamond as a LH reliever, lefties have hit him better than righties. Just throwing that out there.

#23 ScottyB

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:08 PM

To those who want Diamond as a LH reliever, lefties have hit him better than righties. Just throwing that out there.



Same with Duensing this year. R/L Splits - BA .263/.303; OPS .713/.786
He also gave up more homers and RBI's against lefties. Just sayin'

#24 crapforks

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

Same with Duensing this year. R/L Splits - BA .263/.303; OPS .713/.786
He also gave up more homers and RBI's against lefties. Just sayin'

Not terribly encouraging, but the three year split (via espn) has Diamond worse against lefties and Duenseng better. FWIW. scary stuff.

http://espn.go.com/m...3/scott-diamond
http://espn.go.com/m.../brian-duensing

#25 Thrylos

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

Comparing Diamond to Duensing is naive. Duesing hits 94 mph with his fastball and pops it up to 96-97 (ok Hammond stadium radar for the last figure). He also has a pretty nasty slider for lefties. Diamond's FB sits in the high 80s and low 90s if the wind blows the right way, and he is trying to get hitters out with his curve. Totally different pitchers. If one wants to replace Thielbar with Diamond, that might make sense.
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#26 Physics Guy

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

Same with Duensing this year. R/L Splits - BA .263/.303; OPS .713/.786
He also gave up more homers and RBI's against lefties. Just sayin'


The number of AB vs lefties and righties was not much different, so I'm not shocked at this. I would hazard to guess that he was left in to face more good LH batters than RHB because he is a lefty. He does have a nearly 4x better K/BB ratio against LHB. He is much more likely to be successful as a LOOGY than Diamond.

#27 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:51 PM

What I expect:
Nolasco, Hughes, Corriea, Deduno, Gibson

Perkins, Fien, Burton, Swarzak, Duensing, Diamond, Theilbar.


This is what I expect also except that Worley will be in the pen instead of Duensing. To me Worley has bullpen written all over him as a pitcher.

It could be Johnson instead of Gibson in the rotation if he has a better showing in Spring Training, which could happen. Johnson pitched out of the bullpen some in AAA last year, I think he even recorded a save, so he could end up there if Diamond were to be the one to earn a spot in ST (I don't expect that to happen). Duensing must go.

#28 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:05 PM

Comparing Diamond to Duensing is naive. Duesing hits 94 mph with his fastball and pops it up to 96-97 (ok Hammond stadium radar for the last figure). He also has a pretty nasty slider for lefties. Diamond's FB sits in the high 80s and low 90s if the wind blows the right way, and he is trying to get hitters out with his curve. Totally different pitchers. If one wants to replace Thielbar with Diamond, that might make sense.


Duensing was awful last year and I don't think he threw as hard as a starter, neither did Perkins. It might be the case that Diamond would throw harder as a reliever too (might). Most pitchers' game is a little different out of the pen than it is as a starter. That Diamond is taller than Duensing might be an advantage because he can better angle his pitches on a downward plane. My only point being you won't really be able to asses Diamond as a bullpen pitcher until he's done it. Johnson could be a bullpen lefty also. I know TR said he got him to add starting depth, but he did pitch out of the bullpen some last year.

#29 panolo

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:17 PM

If Worley is healthy I expect him to make the team and contribute as the 4th or 5th. I'm convinced he was never healthy. He has had some success at this level and knows what it will take.

#30 DocBauer

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:25 PM

Comparing Diamond to Duensing is naive. Duesing hits 94 mph with his fastball and pops it up to 96-97 (ok Hammond stadium radar for the last figure). He also has a pretty nasty slider for lefties. Diamond's FB sits in the high 80s and low 90s if the wind blows the right way, and he is trying to get hitters out with his curve. Totally different pitchers. If one wants to replace Thielbar with Diamond, that might make sense.


I believe trading Duensing at this point to big a big mistake. Further, I believe trading virtually any of our relievers to be a mistake. The Twins had one of the best overall bullpens in the league last year. They look all the better when you look a the workload they were given. A healthier and bolstered rotation this year not only makes the overall team better, but the bullpen better as well.

There is potentially excellent depth as well when one considers available options to be called up due to injury or in effectiveness bugs biting. Pressley, Tonkin, Achter, Albers, Ibarra, Dean, Diamond and the newly acquired Johnson are some of the names who could fill rolls, find a roll, progress, etc. this year. But they are not yet a known quantity. Why dismantle something that works, is strong, could be stronger, and elevates the quality of the team in its entirety?

Now if spring, or early season, proves that someone is ready to step up, that changes the complexion of things.

signing a veteran C is a must for this ball club. And whether its AJ, or Salt, or someone else, it is not a negative reflection of Pinto, but rather a statement saying we want to be better, we don't have Mauer or his second coming, and Pinto, despite talent and potential, is still a little raw and inexperienced.

The Twins still have plenty of money to spend on said C, even the rumored potential signing of Salt, and could STILL add a smart piece or two. Depth of talent is a good thing. And a quality veteran C AND Pinto is again no negative reflection on Pinto as a prospect, and gives the team even greater talent depth and flexibility.

Keep the bullpen depth and talent strong as is, at least for now. That and a better rotation is a good thing. Don't weaken yourself unnecessarily. And depth in the rotation is also good. Guys get hurt, and under-perform. Last year we thought Worley was a good acquire, and he might yet be, a year removed and fully healthy. And what if a fresh start this year, right in the head and heart and elbow, Diamond reverts back to a healthy 2012 version of himself?

As I have stated in another thread, Gibson starting the season would not be a bad thing. Now, I want him up, and I believe he can be and I hope he is. But if someone comes roaring back, and we want Gibson to get consistent innings and starts to begin the year, would that be so aweful? Perhaps he warms up with consistent production in Rochester, then comes up a month in with someone getting hurt, or Correia getting traded.

And despite a lack of active rumors, I believe the Twins will soon sign that veteran C, I hope one decent LH bat who can plat a little third, (Tracy?), and I still think, to improve depth and options (even trade options) the Twins will still sign another starting pitcher. It might be Pelfrey. Would thar be a bad thing? A veteran SP gaining more strength and endurance a year plus removed from surgery who actually pitched quite well the second half of last season before running out go gas? Or a possible flyer on Johan or Floyd. Even if neither is ready to start the season, what if they are ready a month or so in? What if Johan is 75%the pitcher he once was? For 1M plus some incentives, wouldn't that be worth watching and help bolster the staff?

The point is we've already improved, we have options, depth isn't a bad thing to have, and don't trade from a strength just for the sake of trading. Same with our minor league talent. If TR can swing a great trade, awesome. But I'd rather hoard what we have for now, and trade later.

In no particular order, our rotation is 3/5th set as of now: Nolasco, Hughes and Correia. Deduno is a virtual lock if healthy based n stuff, what he did last year, and even what the Twins have seemed to indicate. And boy do I hope he is 100% because he's fun to watch, and was REALLY good last year when he felt right.

That leaves one spot left, (possibly 2 depending) for Gibson (immediately or a month or so in), Worley (healthy and a season removed to reclaim what he's shown in the past), Diamond (ditto) and possibly a flyer ( even if not ready to start the year).

3 or 4 set, one flyer nursing himself, one with options in the wings, a couple guys n the comeback trail, and the almost inevitable pulled muscle or twinge somewhere buying time.

In short, depth is good, in case I didn't say that enough. Lol There may be room to start the year for just about everyone.

Sorry for being so long-winded.