Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Catcher Post-Season Award?

  • Please log in to reply
3 replies to this topic

#1 BigTrane

BigTrane

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 242 posts

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

Ok, I am a new guy round here, but have been a Twins fan since the '70s (Roy Smalley was my hero). Anyway, as a SABR-challenged (I respect it, gotta dig into it more, tho) kinda guy, I was inspired by jcphitman's thread on the Correia deal to just jump in.

Ok, here's the deal. My buddy is a dyed in the wool Cards fan, and so thru the PS, he was raving about Molina, while I stuck Ortiz in his face. Anyway, right around this time, the Mauer move was made, which begged a couple of questions. (Discussed over beers, of course.)

1) HOF- looking ahead, he's got a strong shot. Boost those batting numbers a bit, bump the black ink, and he's in. But as C or 1B? Does finishing his career at 1B hurt his chances? In as a C or 1B?

2) We realized that while we have PS awards for nearly everything, there's nothing for catcher. Why?

3) Looking at Baseballref, I'm not seeing any special metrics for C. Why? (or maybe, how?)

4) We all know what a difference a smart C can do for a team behind the dish. Calling pitches, framing pitches, handling the pitcher... the list goes on, but it's all "intangibles", right? Who would deny the value of a solid C? How do you measure that stuff?

So, my questions are:
1- Why is there no post-season catcher award?
2- If we have one, what do we name it? Johnny Bench Award or Josh Gibson Award? Something else?
3- What metrics are there- or should be developed- to evaluate catchers for this award- or in general at C? Is it just CS? Nothing else?
SABR guys, help me!

Anyway- just an observation- seems like a big hole in the PS awards. The campaign for a change starts here.
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

#2 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:45 AM

Catchers have Silver Slugger Awards for hitting and the Gold Glove for defense... Some publications (The Sporting News used to) have post season all pro types of teams. Not usre what more they would need to have.

#3 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,286 posts

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

1- Why is there no post-season catcher award?
2- If we have one, what do we name it? Johnny Bench Award or Josh Gibson Award? Something else?
3- What metrics are there- or should be developed- to evaluate catchers for this award- or in general at C? Is it just CS? Nothing else?
SABR guys, help me!

Anyway- just an observation- seems like a big hole in the PS awards. The campaign for a change starts here.


There is exactly the same awards for Catchers as there is for first basemen, second basemen, third basemen, shortstops and outfielders: a. The silver slugger awards are position based and are the only awards that differentiate between different position players. b. the gold glove awards, for every position including catchers

Evaluation for this awards is exactly the same as for all other post-season awards and HOF induction: how a handful or two people feel like, unfortunately...

There a whole bunch of metrics for catcher performance some of them in B-R (btw, such as PB, % runners thrown out, errors - includes throws at CF instead of 2B etc) some of them are more "advanced" like Revized Zone Rating, Ultimate Zone Rating (you can find those at fangraphs), and some metrics about "pitch framing" that different PitchF/X outlets show. Oh. Pitcher ERA by catcher is another (and you can find that at B-R at each pitcher's splits pages). Bill James still publishes his plus-minus metrics too.

As all defensive metrics these are just guides and you are looking for trends vs. absolutes...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#4 BigTrane

BigTrane

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 242 posts

Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:13 PM

Ok, thanks Thrylos for the info- I'll start digging into those stats!

Still, Silver Slugger & Gold Glove are fine, but not catcher-specific. Everybody gets one, but not everybody can be a good catcher. The value to the team of a really solid C- as a good game-caller, if nothing else- well, is that just intangible? Think of all of the things you want from a good catcher (and had in Mauer)... Not worthy of a specific award? One of the most demanding positions on the diamond, if not the most.
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.