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Twins turn attention to Phil Hughes?

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#41 jorgenswest

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:55 PM

This is a good point, the team probably will lose a pitcher if another pitcher is signed. Though I'd think it would be the less experienced Hendriks, Albers or Johnson. However if it was Diamond or Worley, the Twins could likely get some kind of return for one of them and DFA'ing them would force interested parties to work out a deal quickly. I'm guessing Hendriks, Albers or Johnson likely would not net a return. I think Deduno is safe from the way they hint a rotation spot is his to lose.


Worley, Diamond and Deduno are out of options. It is the 25 man or DFA. Any trade would be a sell low and the return would be little to nothing. Their lack of option will hurt any potential return.

I believe the others can and will be optioned.

#42 Thrylos

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:15 PM

Worley, Diamond and Deduno are out of options. It is the 25 man or DFA. Any trade would be a sell low and the return would be little to nothing. Their lack of option will hurt any potential return.

I believe the others can and will be optioned.


I agree with the "Sell Low" on Worley for several issues, mainly because he is younger and before his prime, has had success (in a bandbox) in the majors and has an excuse (being grossly out of shape that resulted in bad mechanics) for his 2013 performance.

Diamond's 2013 was exactly like his 2011, which, in combination to his non-exceptional arsenal, makes me think that 2012 was the aberration here and indeed all he is, is a replacement level pitcher. Diamond's issue is that he has only 3 pitches of which only one (curve ball) had been effective and above average in the past. If you lose the feel of that pitch in any season (like in 2013) bad things will happen, because you will start throwing below par stuff out there.

Denuno is a AAAA pitcher who had some success in an exhibition tournament (WBC) and has been replacement level in his MLB career, despite the First Scout, handing him practically a starting job, like he did with Diamond last off-season (and we know how that went.) He was 30 last season, his best in the majors, btw; however, if your best, at your prime, is about 1.5 K/BB along with a 14% K%, and a 4+ FIP you are replacement level.

Edited by Thrylos, 29 November 2013 - 02:18 PM.

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#43 jay

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

Worley, Diamond and Deduno are out of options. It is the 25 man or DFA. Any trade would be a sell low and the return would be little to nothing. Their lack of option will hurt any potential return.

I believe the others can and will be optioned.


Right. I'd be very surprised if Hendriks makes the team out of camp simply given that he still has an option. Gibson didn't exactly tear it up in the his first go and it's not hard at all to envision him starting the year back in AAA as well. Swarzak is out of options as well, so they'd lose someone even if one of Diamond, Worley, or Deduno swung into the long-man role. I'd make it an almost certainty that Gibby starts in AAA if another FA SP comes on board.

All that said, I'd still welcome a move for Hughes.

#44 zchrz

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:28 PM

Hughes would be a good signing but I think there are some guys they should pursue first. Kazmir should be the main target right now, they need a good lefty and he should be in a similar price range as Hughes. I would also rather have Garza or Arroyo but I kinda doubt they will they will sign another 25+ million pitcher.
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#45 matthew0211

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:52 PM

...I doubt anything is going to happen before the Winter Meetings (well... they start on Monday)


Winter meetings aren't until the week after next, Dec. 9-12. Rule 5 draft is Dec. 12.

#46 Thrylos

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

Winter meetings aren't until the week after next, Dec. 9-12. Rule 5 draft is Dec. 12.


Thanks for that. I guess I cannot wait :)
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#47 jorgenswest

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:09 PM

It will be a good sign when they don't have space on the roster for the Diamonds or Dedunos.

The Twins just need to make sure they are not giving the spots to marginal or decline phase pitchers that don't have upside or years of control.

Sign big or sign no one.

#48 Riverbrian

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

It will be a good sign when they don't have space on the roster for the Diamonds or Dedunos.

The Twins just need to make sure they are not giving the spots to marginal or decline phase pitchers that don't have upside or years of control.

Sign big or sign no one.


Diamond after last year... OK... But...

I don't get the Deduno reference. I'm a Sam Fan... I hope he's healthy and in the rotation and I expect big things if he is.

Deduno can pitch... He has actual stuff that can confound a hitter and I believe he has shown that to all of us watching.

I guess... I just don't understand.

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#49 DaveW

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

Sign Hughes, trade for Bailey.

#50 AHSaves

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:40 PM

Sign Garza for Ricky+ money and sign Navarro accordingly. Let the market develop for Hughes and/or Kazmir.

Garza
Kazmir
Nolasco
Correia
Gibson

I could really get behind that.

#51 Jim H

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:52 PM

Worley, Diamond and Deduno have all pitched better than Hughes in the majors, more recently. It doesn't mean they will in the future, but Hughes is a gamble as well. He will also be a more expensive gamble. Again, I can see why the Twins might sign him, I just won't be very surprised if he isn't very good. He hasn't been for 3 years.

#52 Thrylos

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:03 PM

Worley, Diamond and Deduno have all pitched better than Hughes in the majors, more recently.


When and how are you measuring? No way. Maybe Worley for a single season.
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#53 kab21

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:30 AM

Hughes really hasn't been very good during the last couple of years but I would definitely sign him for 2/15 with a 12M option. The 12M option might look a little expensive but it's actually the key to the deal. Hughes has intriguing upside and a change of scenery could turn him into a sneaky good pitcher. In some ways he reminds me of everyone's favorite - Homer Bailey. Both of these guys were up at 21 and have struggled. Bailey figured things out in the last two years but Hughes hasn't yet. With a little luck the Twins could land a 3.75 ERA pitcher on the cheap locked up for 3 yrs. Or he might continue to suck and the Twins are out an entire 15M. And they maintain a lot of flexibility to bid big on Bailey or someone else next season.

Nolasco
Correia
Hughes
Deduno/Diamond/Worley/reclamation project
Deduno/Diamond/Worley/reclamation project

AAA - Gibson and Meyer - something should open up by June for one of these two. Or before.

#54 johnnydakota

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:39 AM

Sign Hughes, trade for Bailey.


Ok what do you think it would take to get him , and how much will it take to sign him?

#55 jorgenswest

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:45 AM

I think Hughes has more upside than Worley, Deduno and Diamond.

Looking at his career, I may be wrong. I may be seeing him as the prospect he was once long ago.

Signing him and needing to DFA one or two of the above may be a mistake. It will cost them in dollars and more importantly service time.

#56 kab21

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:24 AM

I think Hughes has more upside than Worley, Deduno and Diamond.

Looking at his career, I may be wrong. I may be seeing him as the prospect he was once long ago.

Signing him and needing to DFA one or two of the above may be a mistake. It will cost them in dollars and more importantly service time.


I can't understand your post. He has more upside but it would be a mistake to DFA one the average at best guys? And service time isn't an issue with any of the 4 pitchers mentioned.

#57 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:28 AM

I think Hughes has more upside than Worley, Deduno and Diamond.

Looking at his career, I may be wrong. I may be seeing him as the prospect he was once long ago.

Signing him and needing to DFA one or two of the above may be a mistake. It will cost them in dollars and more importantly service time.


Being worried about losing Worley, Deduno, or Diamond is actually a sign of progress. One makes the rotation, one becomes long man, one goes on DL? Kris Johnson, and his 3 options, was brought in to address this possibility. It will work itself out.

Edited by howieramone, 30 November 2013 - 11:35 AM.


#58 DaveW

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:29 AM

Ok what do you think it would take to get him , and how much will it take to sign him?

Rosario/or Perkins(doubt the latter happens), Gibson and a lower prospect or two for Bailey.

6/100 mil to Bailey.

Sign Hughes to Kabs deal above, the third year option is the key.

Bailey
Nolasco
Hughes

Moving foward is nice, you can fill out 4/5 with cheap in house options.(Meyer, deduno, diamond, Worley,correia for this year, etc)

Edit: I'd also try to get that catcher from the reds as well. Additionally, if they wanted an immediate back end arm for the rotation, toss in correia as well. Though he doesn't do much for the overall value.

Edited by SpiritofVodkaDave, 30 November 2013 - 11:32 AM.


#59 DaveW

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:31 AM

Diamond at best is a #5 starter at this point, losing him would be a bummer but not killer.

Worley is....intriguing, if he shows something in ST give him a shot.

Deduno is prob a #5 at best as well.

Give me Hughes over any of them any day.

Besides if Worley is a mess, would anyone claim him and give him a major league roster spot anyways? I'm pretty sure the whole thing will work itself out

#60 PseudoSABR

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:21 PM

DFAing anyone would be a mistake. We'll need all these guys; we're likely to use as many as ten starters for various reasons. Having even mediocre depth at AAA is a boon, whether that be Worley or Diamond, both are worth holding onto, given their past success.