Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

MinnCentric Forums


The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Too Many Starters?

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 LewFordLives

LewFordLives

    Member

  • Members
  • 94 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:52 AM

Once Nolasco is added, I count 11 starters on the 40 man roster, and that's not including Pressley, Swarzak, Duensing, or others mentioned as possible starters. It also doesn't include Meyer, who may need to be added at some point in 2014. I don't know how the Twins are going to have room for all of them and be able to get enough major league innings for the guys lacking experience. Would it be better to start cutting some of them loose now, so they have time to find another team? Any thoughts on who should be let go/traded?

#2 Danchat

Danchat

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 515 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

I think it's definitely a concern. I think things will level out eventually, like Worley, Albers, or Kris Johnson going into the bullpen, or Hendriks getting outrighted. With most likely one more FA pitcher coming, I expect some room to be made. Things will be straightened out eventually.

#3 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:30 AM

Once Nolasco is added, I count 11 starters on the 40 man roster, and that's not including Pressley, Swarzak, Duensing, or others mentioned as possible starters. It also doesn't include Meyer, who may need to be added at some point in 2014. I don't know how the Twins are going to have room for all of them and be able to get enough major league innings for the guys lacking experience. Would it be better to start cutting some of them loose now, so they have time to find another team? Any thoughts on who should be let go/traded?


Calling Swarzak and Duensing starters was just pretend. Diamond, Worley and Deduno are out of options. It will play itself out.

Edited by howieramone, 28 November 2013 - 11:21 AM.


#4 mudcat14

mudcat14

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:53 AM

Half of them will pitch their way into the bullpen or minors, or onto the DL long before we break camp. The guys who earn it will get their innings in the spring, the ones who don't ...well, who gives a sh*t! If there is a surplus come April 1st, I'd much rather worry about it then than worry about which AAAA rejects would man our 3-5 slots like we have for the past several springs.

#5 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 876 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:57 AM

I can see Terry Ryan trading some of our depth at spring training for another organizational need. It wont be a big deal just a AAAA pitcher for a AAAA OF for example. But I suspect he will want to size them up during spring training before he makes those trades.

#6 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 740 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:11 AM

There are quite a few player, the problem is major league talent. Nolasco and Correia are the for sures. Maybe 2 of Deduno, Diamond, Gibson, Hendricks, and Worley. The rest are Rochester Red Wings. Middle of the year maybe Logan, May, or Meyer makes it an issue. The maybe is big enough on any of the pitchers that the Twins still talk to Pelfrey knowing they still need a front of the rotation guy to go with Nolasco.

#7 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 876 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:19 AM

All evidence points to the Twins signing or getting another starter if you read all of the articles being written.

#8 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,632 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

Any rotation has space for a Garza. Signing a Johan Santana works because he is either good or injured.

The Twins don't need to sign back end guys. They don't need to sign Pelfrey. They don't need to sign pitchers certain to decline into back end of rotation guys like Arroyo.

Signing those guys prevents them from finding useful pitchers with several years of control.

Thoughts on pitchers...

Correia would likely be a good fit in a role of long man/6th starter. His performance doesn't drop with runners on base. He is very good at holding on runners. He does not need to be a lock in the rotation. It will be a positive sign if he moves into this role.

Meyer needs to be in rotation early. He needs to be up adjusting to the major leagues with a fresh arm. We don't need to see those high pitch count games in AAA like we saw with Gibson. I hope he opens on the major league team.

Gibson needs to be in the rotation from day 1.

Will Deduno be healthy? He needs a 10 start shot, but if he doesn't have it they should cut ties. He is not a young pitcher.

I believe Diamond and Worley are out of options. They may need to be designated for assignment. That's OK if it is Garza pushing them out. It is not OK if it is a 37 year old Arroyo or a Pelfrey.

I think Hendriks has an option left. He should be given a long enough stretch in AAA. Trevor May also needs a longer stretch in AAA. Albers and Johnson will also be there if needed.

Again...

There is always space at the top. Sign Garza.

The Twins need to avoid guys who fill in the middle back end or are very likely to decline into that role. Avoid Capuano, Arroyo, Pelfrey...

#9 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:54 AM

(off topic and I hope I dont get banned for it ) Happy Thanksgiving to all Twins fans ,and players ands personel...and a special blessing for our troops , god bless you all

#10 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

It looks like Hughes is our next target.

Nolasco, Hughes, Correia, Deduno, Gibson

Flip Correia at the deadline and insert Meyer.

Edited by howieramone, 28 November 2013 - 12:00 PM.


#11 Tibs

Tibs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

Gibson has to be in the rotation from the start. I don't completely understand the negativity I've seen people have towards him when we talk about SSS all the time.

#12 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

Gibson has to be in the rotation from the start. I don't completely understand the negativity I've seen people have towards him when we talk about SSS all the time.


To me , Gibson needs to have a spot in spring training to earn a regular season spot in the rotation...no freebies.

#13 drivlikejehu

drivlikejehu

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 534 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:45 PM

The Twins have too few starters, not too many. Junk-throwing AAAA filler doesn't count.

#14 James

James

    Sideburns Specialist

  • Members
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationThe dive bars of NE Minneapolis

Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:31 PM

The only thing that needs to be said: You can never have too much starting pitching.

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.


#15 DuluthFan

DuluthFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 116 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:37 PM

The Twins do not have to worry about too many starters until the END of spring training. At this point, it looks as if only two pitchers have spots, Nolasco and Correia. All others will have to earn a major league spot. That includes Gibson, Diamond and Deduno. The Twins had a horrible starting staff last year. Any improvement by adding other major league experienced pitchers will be greatly appreciated. If the young pitchers have not EARNED a major league spot, they should be left at Rochester or New Britain to LEARN and DEVELOP. The past three years the Twins have had to rush their young pitchers to the majors to fill spots in the rotation. It is quite obvious from the results that they were not ready. Leave the prospects in the minors until they are ready and able to improve upon the production we are getting at the major league level. We do not need to see players using up their option years and service time on 'learning' at the major league level. It forces the organization to make roster decisions on players who are out of options but have not quite proven themselves (Parmalee, Deduno, Diamond?, ....) Sign a few more free agent pitchers. Make sure to stagger the lengths of the contracts so that you have at least one ending each year so there is a 'spot' to use for promotions from within the system. We need a two year & three year signing. One open spot this year for last year's pitchers to vie for, Correia's contract is up next year to open a spot for the next promotion (Meyer?). Keep in mind there WILL BE injured starters every year. That is the time to take a look at possible promotions for the next season, and there is always the September roster expansion to look at system players.

#16 Kwak

Kwak

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,432 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:49 PM

One reason there are "too many" starting pitchers (mouthwash needed) is that these guys don't have a dominant pitch to be useful as a relief pitcher as a "fallback position". They are guys with "average stuff" that were elevated because they "attacked the strike zone" in the minor leagues and survived the cuts. Sadly, their major league experience wasn't productive enough or we would have engraved their name in the rotation for 2014.

#17 Tibs

Tibs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:39 PM

To me , Gibson needs to have a spot in spring training to earn a regular season spot in the rotation...no freebies.


I guess that's true. I didn't mean Gibson should be given a spot regardless, but he should be strongly considered for a spot. What does everyone think of Hendriks? If he is out of options, should we stick him in the rotation one last time and see what happens? We probably know how that would go. Is there room for him in the bullpen?

I'm also expecting Worley to be in the rotation this year.

#18 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Daily Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,401 posts
  • LocationLake Tahoe, Nevada

Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:39 PM

The only thing that needs to be said: You can never have too much starting pitching.


The reason it's scarce is that somebody forgot to insert the word "competent" when the quote was conceived.

#19 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,342 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:00 PM

I was expecting a thread full of tongue-in-cheek jokes as a way of saying thanks for our first significant FA move in decades.

I'm a bit of a sad panda now.

#20 gil4

gil4

    Not Irrationally Optimistic Anymore (til next year)

  • Members
  • 664 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:51 PM

Too many bad starters is a much easier problem to correct than too few good ones. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

#21 ScottyB

ScottyB

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 607 posts

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:54 PM

Gibson has to be in the rotation from the start. I don't completely understand the negativity I've seen people have towards him when we talk about SSS all the time.


Okay, I'm an old fart - almost 60. What the hell is SSS. Every time someone uses it, I'm confused. I always knew it as Shave, Sh-t and Shower, but that makes no sense. Thanks from the older generation.

#22 Paul Pleiss

Paul Pleiss

    Y'arrrgh matey!

  • Members
  • 695 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:01 AM

Having 11 starting pitchers on the 40-man isn't a problem. As the tread points out, there's no need to keep them all, and most of them will start the season in AAA. Guys like Worley who will be out of options will cause the Twins to make some tough decisions if they get called up and can't perform. But if they can't perform, and they haven't performed before, exposing them to waivers isn't a bad thing, not for the organization and definitely not for the player.
__________________
Follow me, @BaseballPirate, on Twitter, read my writing at Baseball Twins and check out the Talk to Contact Podcast (@TalkToContact) or email the show: talktocontact@gmail.com

#23 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,632 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:23 AM

Worley has a strong enough track record in the NL. He would not pass through waivers. Diamond probably wouldn't either given he is left handed. They both need to be on the 25 man roster next April.

Looking at 2013, it is reasonable to think let them go. However, they both have had success and one or the other is likely to have success again. They both have several years of control left. As the Twins add to the staff this winter it is critical it is guys like Garza that can be seen as a number 2 or young enough like Hughes to have some upside. They need to avoid their usual bargain bin additions. Developing someone in house with service time will have much more value long term.

#24 crapforks

crapforks

    Member

  • Members
  • 77 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:30 AM

SSS=small sample size. It's a term from statistics that lets the reader know that the slice of information isn't large enough to extrapolate much meaningful information.

#25 ScottyB

ScottyB

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 607 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:49 AM

SSS=small sample size. It's a term from statistics that lets the reader know that the slice of information isn't large enough to extrapolate much meaningful information.


Thank you