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Article: Early Signs Point to Unprecedented Aggressiveness

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:24 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...-Aggressiveness

#2 clutterheart

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:42 AM

Empty rhetoric? Perhaps. It wouldn't be the first time. But there are numerous signals indicating that this organization is feeling a far greater sense of urgency than is typical, and that provides some real reason for hope.


After reading the latest from Wolfson at 1500 I am thinking it might be empty rhetoric. It has some pessimistic indicators. Hopefully they are just playing games with agents.

#3 dwintheiser

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:10 AM

Given Parker's story about the Twins already making an offer to Mike Pelfrey (and that offer not being high enough), I'm going to withhold any enthusiasm for a 'big free agent signing'.

#4 jharaldson

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:11 AM

When reading some of the linked materials from your article I actually get less sure of the Twins actual commitment. In Doogie's article the Twins are breaking their word on giving up a draft pick for a decent signing:

[FONT=Verdana]The Twins have told agents that they don't plan on sacrificing their second-round pick in June's amateur draft to sign a free agent, despite a public declaration stating otherwise. In other words, starters Ervin Santana and Ubaldo Jimenez aren't in the Twins' plans. In fact, Santana's representatives already have meetings set up with teams in Orlando. The Twins, as of Tuesday morning, are not on that list.[/FONT]


In reading the Pohlad article the feeling I got is that Jim Pohlad has committed to not actively inhibiting Ryan from signing players:

[FONT=Georgia]We have a lot of prospects, but most aren’t quite ready. We don’t have a lot of trading inventory. We have to go into the marketplace. Terry knows that. I’m not encouraging him to wait.[/FONT]


I think there is a big difference in "I'm not encouraging him to wait" and actually saying something like "I have encouraged him to be aggressive on both money and years."

#5 Nick Nelson

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:12 AM

Given Parker's story about the Twins already making an offer to Mike Pelfrey (and that offer not being high enough), I'm going to withhold any enthusiasm for a 'big free agent signing'.


Understandable, and I thought about mentioning it, but I just can't put a ton of stock into rumors coming from Heyman regarding Boras clients.

#6 Smcginnity

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:18 AM

Anything less than two decent FA signings, I will be disappointed. I bet they sign 1 less than decent pitcher (Pelfrey) and then get a bunch off the trash pile after that. They do this every year and it is so old at this point. What they should do is go hard after Garza and probably an Arroyo/Kazmir type. But, I don't see it happening. It will be a bunch more rhetoric that leads to the aforementioned pathetic FA signings.

#7 SDFan

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:46 AM

I thought McCann went to the Yankees?

#8 darin617

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:57 AM

Twins aggressive in off season? I hate to say you have to prove me wrong before I start drinking the kool aid. Just because they are talking to agents means absolutely nothing until they pull the trigger on a deal. The agents probably have not laughed so hard when they finish a meeting with the Twins people.

#9 MichiganTwins

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

SDFan, he did sign with the Yankees

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

Early signs point to rumors of stuff maybe happening, but just as it is too early to say they'll do nothing, it seems a bit early to get confident, doesn't it?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#11 DaveW

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:04 AM

The agents probably have not laughed so hard when they finish a meeting with the Twins people.

It will be a bunch more rhetoric that leads to the aforementioned pathetic FA signings.




This forum is quickly becoming unreadable, Nick offers a reasonable and well thought out opinion and everyone has to rush in with the same old, tired, "Dohhh the Twins won't do anything, Ryan should be fired, derp" rhetoric that has been non stop. We get it, nobody likes coming off of three bad seasons, making thread after thread and post after post about how the Twins won't do anything, are a laughing stock etc does nothing to expand the conversation and frankly will do nothing but drive away anyone who would actually like to have a discussion about the Twins.

It was this sort of daily garbage that kept me off the forums the majority of the second half of the season, and I know I wasn't the only one. This isn't directed at this thread as it hasn't gotten out of hand...yet.

#12 mike wants wins

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:11 AM

How about this Dave, as a specific example?

Early signs indicated they would give up their 2nd round pick for a good player. Now, Wolfson tweets they are telling agents they won't do that.

That is a specific example of why "early signs" don't mean much (either way, frankly). Until stuff is done, it is just so much talk (for every team).

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#13 JB_Iowa

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:14 AM

The problem is that people feel compelled to write something -- even when there really isn't anything to say. (This is not a criticism of you, Nick, this is about all of us).

There really isn't anything to say. You can take what you've heard as encouraging as Nick has done or you can take a negative view and say that nothing has changed.

In the long run, none of it matters -- it's actions, not words, that will make the difference.

#14 DaveW

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:17 AM

How about this Dave, as a specific example?

Early signs indicated they would give up their 2nd round pick for a good player. Now, Wolfson tweets they are telling agents they won't do that.

That is a specific example of why "early signs" don't mean much (either way, frankly). Until stuff is done, it is just so much talk (for every team).

It says they don't plan on parting with a 2nd round pick (not that they wouldn't, and even Ryan said if it was the right player they would), and frankly I think the fact they aren't meeting with Santana is a GOOD thing, I wouldn't give him a 100 mil.

I'd much rather they sign one of the guys like Garza who doesn't cost the pick anyways.

#15 Winston Smith

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:22 AM

Dave is just grumpy because Mark DeRosa retired!

#16 DJL44

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:26 AM

Dioner Navarro could provide what most of what they're looking for from Saltalamacchia (LH bat, decent catcher) at a fraction of the cost. It will be interesting to see what happens.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

It says they don't plan on parting with a 2nd round pick (not that they wouldn't, and even Ryan said if it was the right player they would), and frankly I think the fact they aren't meeting with Santana is a GOOD thing, I wouldn't give him a 100 mil.

I'd much rather they sign one of the guys like Garza who doesn't cost the pick anyways.


Agreed. Right now, the only guy I'd give up a pick for is Jimenez. With Garza on the market, I don't think it's necessary to give up a pick to get a good pitcher (but I'd still give up the pick for Ubaldo).

#18 mike wants wins

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:40 AM

Missing the point of my post completely..............

Early signs mean nothing, they are just talk. They talked about giving up their 2nd, now Wolfson is tweeting they won't do so. None of the talk matters, only action matters. And, if it is too early to say "they are doing nothing", it is similarly too early to say "they are doing something".

Who they'd give up a pick for is not at all what I was discussing.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#19 beckmt

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:40 AM

I also feel that actions will make a difference. Twins should only pay for a frontline(#1 or #2) starter for 3 years or more. Twins should also be very aggressive in pushing Stewart and Thorpe up the latter to see if they can make the rotation in 2016. That would make this line very plausible.

#20 Nick Nelson

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:40 AM

I thought McCann went to the Yankees?


Derp. Brain fart. Fixed, thanks.