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Article: What? The Twins considering Mike Pelfrey again?

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#41 nicksaviking

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:15 PM

I was a die-hard fan until they got swept out of the playoffs again in 2010. I probably missed a handful of Baker's starts his entire Twins career. I'm qualified to make an informed opinion on him. I saw a pitcher who benefited from playing in the weak Central with the unbalanced schedule. I saw a pitcher who cracked any time there was pressure involved. Even 163 against Detroit he pitched well when they were behind until the Twins scored a couple runs. Then Scotty went out for the top of the inning and gave it right back. Baker and pressure were never a good mix.


If we don't use the eye test but instead use stats, we may question Pelfrey's mental toughness by the 5.59 ERA he had in the first inning last year, his ability to only get ten total outs after the sixth inning last year or the 30 second soap opera that takes place between each of his pitches.

Those things also show up on the eye test. I doubt Baker is more mentally weak than Pelfrey, but hypothetically if he was, I'd still take the guy who gives up fewer runs, strikes more guys out and goes deeper into games.

#42 jorgenswest

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

Well we'll see which one pitches better in 2014.


Who is more likely to perform above league average as a starting pitcher?

Does Pelfrey win if he gives mediocre performance and Baker doesn't pitch due to injury?

With guys like Baker and Santana, they will either pitch well or be injured.

#43 Reider

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:00 PM

Funny how he's posted multiple seasons better than anything Pelfrey has done in his career, despite being so mentally weak.

Baker is a better pitcher. Period. He strikes out more, walks less, gives up fewer runs and hits, and goes deeper into games.

A healthy Mike Pelfrey is a #4 pitcher, maybe a #3 on a bad team. A healthy Scott Baker is a #3 in an average year, a #2 when he's really rolling.

I will never understand why Minnesota fans didn't appreciate what they had in Baker.


I agree. I was a big Baker fan when he was here. He's hands down better than Pelfrey (when healthy).

Edited by Reider, 29 November 2013 - 04:11 PM.


#44 Reider

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:05 PM

Scott Baker is a good man and a good pitcher. He would be cheaper and likely better than Mike Pelfrey. The Twins soured on him because he refused to pitch like Anderson wanted. His out pitch is a high fastball. Without it, he's a 5 ERA pitcher. With it, he's a 4 ERA pitcher. It seems his pitching coach would rather have a 5 ERA pitcher who keeps the ball down than a 4 ERA pitcher who uses his out pitch. For this reason, I highly doubt he signs with the Twins. And it's probably for the best because I'm eager to see him have a healthy season for a team who appreciates a guy who gets outs however he can.

If this is true, it says more about Gardy and Anderson than it does about Baker. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. A good coach will play to a players strengths. Trying to force a player to move away from his strengths is a sign of a bad coach, not a bad player.

#45 Thrylos

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

If this is true, it says more about Gardy and Anderson than it does about Baker. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. A good coach will play to a players strengths. Trying to force a player to move away from his strengths is a sign of a bad coach, not a bad player.


And Baker is not an outlier as far as their coaching goes: Liriano, Slowey, Garza, Lohse, Bonser etc need to be added to the list. The starting pitchers they did not mess with were either veterans (Pavano, Radke, Livan, Rogers, et al) or sinker/slider pitch to contract types (Blackburn, Silva, Mays et al) which are their model of successful pitchers. One exception: Johan Santana who Bobby Cuellar turned into a star.
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#46 johnnydakota

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:42 PM

If we could get Mike Pelfrey on a contract simular to what the Giants did Vogelsong , then sure ,If not we still need a coupla pitchers who are capible of being #2s or 3s,Which I dont think mike is able to be

#47 johnnydakota

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:47 PM

Funny how he's posted multiple seasons better than anything Pelfrey has done in his career, despite being so mentally weak.

Baker is a better pitcher. Period. He strikes out more, walks less, gives up fewer runs and hits, and goes deeper into games.

A healthy Mike Pelfrey is a #4 pitcher, maybe a #3 on a bad team. A healthy Scott Baker is a #3 in an average year, a #2 when he's really rolling.

I will never understand why Minnesota fans didn't appreciate what they had in Baker.


1st, I had to look outside and see if 4 horsemen were riding by, I think this is 1 of the few times we agree ...Scotty was a darn fine pitcher for us , not the Nancy many made him out to be. If it came down to signing Baker or Johan , I sign Baker, I also sign Baker over Pelfrey...But the real question is, can we get him to return ? After several bus tosses and several non players questioning his toughness, he might not want to come back

#48 stringer bell

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:04 PM

Baker and/or Pelfrey would be good additions for the Twins. I am more confident about Pelfrey's health than Baker's. Another name that has been mentioned often is Johan. Please fans, let's not waste our hopes on Santana. It would be miraculous if he could pitch well again. I'd rather remember him as the multiple Cy winner he was before he was traded to the Mets.

#49 Shane Wahl

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:41 PM

Wait, there are people on this planet who think Mike Pelfrey is better than Scott Baker?

#50 Shane Wahl

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:48 PM

For those who think Pelfrey is better or even all that comparable to Baker, how do you compare Pelfrey to Nolasco?

If I were guaranteed 200 innings from any of those three pitchers in 2014, I would take Baker hands down.

#51 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:14 PM

For those who think Pelfrey is better or even all that comparable to Baker, how do you compare Pelfrey to Nolasco?

If I were guaranteed 200 innings from any of those three pitchers in 2014, I would take Baker hands down.


Eh... Baker hasn't really pitched in what, 20 months?

He has the most ability of the three but given his rust and TJS, I'd take Nolasco over him in 2014.

A healthy and proven Scott Baker might be a different story.

#52 snepp

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

Per B-Ref, Scott Baker's career leverage splits, OPS allowed.

Low: .732

Med: .755

High: .690

Cracking under pressure indeed.

#53 Reider

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

I just got an alert from the score on my phone that the Twins just made Pelfrey a contract offer. I was under the impression that the Twins already had a 2year/$10m standing offer on the table. Does anybody know more about this? Is this a second contract offer? Or was the 2yr/$10m offer just a rumour?

#54 JB_Iowa

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:12 AM

Officials from other clubs are scratching their heads as well at why the Twins and Pelfrey haven’t hammered out a deal.


“Minnesota is a good place for him,” an official from a National League club said this week. “Pelfrey is soft.”


Another official, this one from an American League club, said he was taken aback when reports first surfaced of a two-year offer for Pelfrey.


“I thought it was extremely odd,” the official said. “If he doesn’t sign back with the Twins, I think Mike will probably scramble and sign a one-year, incentive-laden deal somewhere, but it won’t be with a contender.”


http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/


This gets kind of curious -- especially read the comparison between Pelfrey and Hughes. Easy to see the (alleged) Boras point but if the league reaction is as stated above, it also puts Pelfrey in a really uncomfortable spot.

Boras has misread the market before. Is this another case?

(Oh, and you have to LOVE the comment that Pelfrey is soft. Blech.)

#55 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:19 AM

And the further implication that MN is a good place for soft players, an indictment of the Twins' approach, frankly.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#56 Reider

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:28 AM

That is absolutely hilarious!! I thought you were just making those quotes up to be funny. 2 years / $10million seems to be a fair deal for both sides (even though I'd rather the Twins sign Garza).

#57 amjgt

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:31 AM

Is that a real quote? Not only a slam on a relatively unimportant major league player, but a slam on MN.

You almost never see quotes like that.

#58 Marta Shearing

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:35 AM

And the further implication that MN is a good place for soft players, an indictment of the Twins' approach, frankly.


Its an epidemic on this team right now, and it all starts with Gardenhire. This is the culture he wants. I think it makes him feel more in control.....more important. Players missing long stretches with minor injuries, but they do it because they can. They're actually almost encouraged to. Shutting Arcia down last year was a joke.

#59 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:35 AM

Boras has misread the market before. Is this another case?

(Oh, and you have to LOVE the comment that Pelfrey is soft. Blech.)


And you know this time of year, Pelfrey is barely on Boras' mind. Surely he's thinking that he's got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

I'm not very interested in Pelfrey, but Pelfrey at $5 million for 2015 is probably a hell of a lot easier to move than Arroyo at $12 million. Seeing as Nolasco and Hughes are both under contract longer than 2 years, Meyer/Gibson/May are near MLB ready and the Twins have a plethora of reclamation arms that may be servicable, one would have to think anyone signed to a two year deal this offseason may be looked at as trade bait this time next year.

#60 jokin

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:40 AM

Is that a real quote? Not only a slam on a relatively unimportant major league player, but a slam on MN.

You almost never see quotes like that.


You do see them from "anonymous sources", I can imagine it sometimes comes in handy as a good negotiating ploy. And it's something that those of us who watch this organization on a daily basis knows (unfortunately), has the ring of truth attached to it.