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Dioner Navarro a Twin?

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#1 Chance

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:43 PM

Peter Gammons says that Navarro is close to a deal with an undisclosed team. The Blue Jays and Twins are thought to be possible suitors.

Navarro's stats last season: .300/.365/.492 with 13 home runs in 89 games.

Do you hope it's the Twins? What would you think the contract should be if it is?

#2 tcarlic

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

If they did sign him, you would think he would split time with Pinto. Navarro's other seasons have not been too hot; he's played in only 225 and he's been with a different team every year since 2010. Sounds like a back-up/platoon catcher to me.

#3 Chance

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:52 PM

I agree, tcarlic. That may be why he would make sense for us. He might take a 1 year deal and that could help Pinto slowly adjust to MLB and being the guy in 2015. I would like this as much as Salty.

#4 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:57 PM

He had a good 2013. That's almost it for anything of value from this guy. There is no way I would waste any time with him.

#5 Tibs

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:13 PM

I wouldn't love the signing, but I wouldn't hate it and I don't exactly disagree with it.

#6 Kwak

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

It's really difficult to evaluate a deal when none of the terms are known.

#7 Chance

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:27 PM

True, but I still think it's fun to consider what you would prefer before the deal rather than after.

#8 twinsfan34

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:28 PM

I'd take him over Salty. Especially for the price that Navarro would claim. He was a beast for Tampa in the playoffs a few years back. He speaks Spanish (he's from Venezuela) as well, something many here are waiting in a veteran. Spanish speaking coach on the field and mentor to Pinto, who is also Venezuelan.

#9 twinsfan34

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:42 PM

I'm seeing Marlins or Blue Jays...

Do you have a link with the Twins in the mix..?

#10 Mave

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:00 PM

For what it's worth: http://www.mlbtrader...oward-deal.html

It just cites Gammons on Twitter saying that Navarro is "moving toresolution," with a team.

#11 Chance

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:03 PM

No, just MLBTradeRumor saying that the Blue Jays and us were in the market. Nothing saying we were in talks with him. Sorry if I lead you astray.

#12 TKGuy

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:15 PM

Ugh, if we sign him, no trading Pinto for pitching. Don't want him

#13 jorgenswest

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:33 PM

I hope they would put defense as a priority in seeking a catcher. If that's the case, they won't consider Navarro.

#14 Linus

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:13 PM

Therein lies the rub....there are no good defensive catchers available that can hit at all. I'd rather have Navarro than Salty. Actually, I'd rather play Doumit, trade him at the deadline and sink or swim with Pinto, et al.

#15 jorgenswest

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:59 PM

The Twins appear to agree with the view point listed above.

I disagree. I don't believe that Doumit can possibly hit well enough to make up for the runs he costs with his defense.

Mike Fasts study of a few years ago and the various studies since lead several teams to put a priority on receiving the ball. Joe Maddon said last winter that Molina saved them over 50 runs. They gave him another contract and he can't hit. Doumit is the other end of the spectrum.

I hope the Twins are correct and the Rays, Yankees and Pirates are wrong. I am not confident in that hope.

#16 minn55441

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

The Twins appear to agree with the view point listed above.

I disagree. I don't believe that Doumit can possibly hit well enough to make up for the runs he costs with his defense.

Mike Fasts study of a few years ago and the various studies since lead several teams to put a priority on receiving the ball. Joe Maddon said last winter that Molina saved them over 50 runs. They gave him another contract and he can't hit. Doumit is the other end of the spectrum.

I hope the Twins are correct and the Rays, Yankees and Pirates are wrong. I am not confident in that hope.


Defensive catcher that can't hit. Is Drew still available?

#17 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:40 PM

I sure hope we arent one of the unknown teams. Navarro has never been anything.

#18 notoriousgod71

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:01 PM

The Twins appear to agree with the view point listed above.

I disagree. I don't believe that Doumit can possibly hit well enough to make up for the runs he costs with his defense.

Mike Fasts study of a few years ago and the various studies since lead several teams to put a priority on receiving the ball. Joe Maddon said last winter that Molina saved them over 50 runs. They gave him another contract and he can't hit. Doumit is the other end of the spectrum.

I hope the Twins are correct and the Rays, Yankees and Pirates are wrong. I am not confident in that hope.


I don't believe for a second that Molina saved 50 runs. He may have technically framed 50 pitches for called strike threes, but in reality umpires have such a wide zone that 2/3 of them would probably have been called anyway.

#19 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:17 PM

For me it's Salty or bust. I am ok either way. He's not great, but he's good. Otherwise call me insane for trusting Pinto and Herrmann to improve defensively.

#20 jorgenswest

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:25 PM

Defensive catcher that can't hit. Is Drew still available?


If Drew is an elite defensive catcher, he will have a major league job. He is probably a little above average. That isn't enough to make up for his bat. The work done on framing numbers suggest that the difference between his defense and Doumit's is greater than the difference in their bats, but that has more to do with Doumit.

#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:27 PM

The Twins appear to agree with the view point listed above.

I disagree. I don't believe that Doumit can possibly hit well enough to make up for the runs he costs with his defense.

Mike Fasts study of a few years ago and the various studies since lead several teams to put a priority on receiving the ball. Joe Maddon said last winter that Molina saved them over 50 runs. They gave him another contract and he can't hit. Doumit is the other end of the spectrum.

I hope the Twins are correct and the Rays, Yankees and Pirates are wrong. I am not confident in that hope.


We've gone round and round over pitch framing. I have a hard time believing it can impact 8-10% of runs allowed but I think we can both agree on one thing:

Ryan Doumit is a horrible catcher and no playoff team would put him behind the dish 80+ times a season. I think he has a lot of value as someone who can DH, pinch hit, and catch ~30-40 times a season but no way in hell should he be the go-to guy at catcher.

#22 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:39 PM

Yeah, Doumit's value is as a DH, pinch hitter (from both sides, adds value) and as that third catcher on the roster that can fill-in as backup catcher for a DL stint from one of the other two catchers (so they don't have to call another player up). There is some value there.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:08 AM

Yeah, Doumit's value is as a DH, pinch hitter (from both sides, adds value) and as that third catcher on the roster that can fill-in as backup catcher for a DL stint from one of the other two catchers (so they don't have to call another player up). There is some value there.


If he's hitting at, say, a .750 clip, I think he's a very capable backup catcher. He won't kill you behind the dish 30 times a season because of his bat... But he has to hit, something he didn't do last season. To me, his defense is offset because of his versatility, which allows a team to carry a more versatile bench... Again, if he's hitting.

In the AL or NL, I think the added versatility of allowing the team to carry another MI, OF, or P because of Doumit can be worth a lot. If he's hitting.

Did I mention that he needs to hit to have value?

#24 Seth Stohs

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:41 AM

I think it makes so much more sense than signing Saltallamacchia, if it's in the 2 year, $7-8 million range. He's a guy who could start 110 games if necessary, but if he winds up catching just 70-80 games because Pinto becomes very good and needs to catch a little more (95-110 games), he isn't costing 8 digits. I'd be good with that.

#25 old nurse

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:15 AM

The Twins appear to agree with the view point listed above.

I disagree. I don't believe that Doumit can possibly hit well enough to make up for the runs he costs with his defense.

Mike Fasts study of a few years ago and the various studies since lead several teams to put a priority on receiving the ball. Joe Maddon said last winter that Molina saved them over 50 runs. They gave him another contract and he can't hit. Doumit is the other end of the spectrum.

I hope the Twins are correct and the Rays, Yankees and Pirates are wrong. I am not confident in that hope.


The fallacy in the conclusion by Fast is that a strike one or two that should have been a ball leads to outs. They did not investigate the number for called third strikes. How many batters did the Twins lose with a 2 strike count?

#26 Brandon

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:25 AM

Signing Navarro means the Twins believe in Pinto enough to bank on him for the future. after the last 2 seasons I see no reason Pinto can not succeed at the major league level. Plus I think Navarro strikes out around 50% less than Saltalamacchia. I think this plays more into the Twins Philosophies. I think the main reason the Twins would be interested in Salty is RH power and he played for some winning teams, but his cost is getting up there.

#27 Twins Twerp

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

If he's hitting at, say, a .750 clip, I think he's a very capable backup catcher. He won't kill you behind the dish 30 times a season because of his bat... But he has to hit, something he didn't do last season. To me, his defense is offset because of his versatility, which allows a team to carry a more versatile bench... Again, if he's hitting.

In the AL or NL, I think the added versatility of allowing the team to carry another MI, OF, or P because of Doumit can be worth a lot. If he's hitting.

Did I mention that he needs to hit to have value?


If he's hitting .750 his shatty defense will definitely be offset by his hitting. Put him at short in that case

#28 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:51 AM

I don't care who you are and how many internet points I lose, but if you think Doumit is the answer behind the dish for more than about 20 innings, you are not baseball smart.

#29 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:52 AM

I think it makes so much more sense than signing Saltallamacchia, if it's in the 2 year, $7-8 million range. He's a guy who could start 110 games if necessary, but if he winds up catching just 70-80 games because Pinto becomes very good and needs to catch a little more (95-110 games), he isn't costing 8 digits. I'd be good with that.


Signing Salty allows Pinto to improve defense on a lesser stage(AAA), when he is ready he can catch the majority while Salty hits enough to DH and catch 60 games in 2015 and 2016.

#30 Brandon

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:08 AM

We've gone round and round over pitch framing. I have a hard time believing it can impact 8-10% of runs allowed but I think we can both agree on one thing:

Ryan Doumit is a horrible catcher and no playoff team would put him behind the dish 80+ times a season. I think he has a lot of value as someone who can DH, pinch hit, and catch ~30-40 times a season but no way in hell should he be the go-to guy at catcher.


I think that pitch framing could impact 8-10% of the AB which would likely affect 8-10% of the runs scored, It may not change the number of runs scored but change the AB in which the runs are plated, set up, runners advance.....