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Berardino: Herrmann, Pinto struggling in Winter Ball

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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:03 PM

PiPress Mike Berardino, who is killing it this offseaon, reports that Chris Herrmann was send home from Domincan Winter League after SLUGGING just .267 over 12 games. But that's not the worst news....

ellow catcher Josmil Pinto isn't exactly tearing up the Venezuelan Winter League, either. Pinto was 5 for 25 (.200) with six strikeouts for Aragua and had lost playing time to San Francisco backup Guillermo Quiroz.


Pinto hadn't played since Saturday.


Seems like another good time to ask - anyone think the Twins should be targeting a veteran catcher this offseason?

#2 clutterheart

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:09 PM

[COLOR=#333333]Berardino needs some perspective:[/COLOR]
Herrmann played 12 games
Pinto has played 7 games

There is no useful data from that sample. - especially since the players don't really have a spring to get back their timing.
Furthermore the team Pinto is playing for has Wilson Ramos on the squad. Who is DH'ing
Anything Pinto can learn from that guy would be great!

Edited by clutterheart, 21 November 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#3 Linus

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

Obviously these stats don't mean anything but then we also have to say that Pinto's September doesn't mean much either. Despite the hatred it receives from some posters, you can see why TR quickly signed a veteran backup catcher like Fryer. If Pinto and Hermann have to go to the minors (not unlikely), and you throw in an injury (quite likely), we might need the guy.

#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:16 PM

Yeah, those numbers mean nothing. It's just extra at bats.

#5 stringer bell

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:32 PM

Not good news, but nothing to lose sleep over, either. I do think a defense-first receiver would be of benefit to the team and especially to Pinto. It sounds like Molina is staying in Tampa. I hope Mr. Ryan acquires such a veteran. I don't think the team needs to add any more position players.

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:15 PM

When have winter league stats ever mattered, whatsoever, for anything about how we view talent?

#7 clutterheart

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:57 PM

Obviously these stats don't mean anything but then we also have to say that Pinto's September doesn't mean much either. Despite the hatred it receives from some posters, you can see why TR quickly signed a veteran backup catcher like Fryer. If Pinto and Hermann have to go to the minors (not unlikely), and you throw in an injury (quite likely), we might need the guy.


Thankfully Pinto's track record shows a career .790 OPS and the last two full seasons an .800+ OPS. Questions remain about his defense but some of the reports I have seen show that he is improving as he advances in the system.

I think the Fryer angst is due to him being on the 40 man but that's only relevant if the team loses a player of consequence. Today, its not a big deal, but down the road it might be.

#8 Shane Wahl

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:22 AM

Was there this concern over Winter League ball last year? No. And for good reason, because literally nothing is to be gained from this time other than innings and plate appearances. This should be obvious.

#9 launchingthrees

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:06 AM

[COLOR=#333333]"PiPress Mike Berardino, who is killing it this offseaon"

I hope you aren't including this article in the "killing it" category. Anyone attaching a narrative to 20-30 at-bats is at best misinformed.[/COLOR]

Edited by launchingthrees, 22 November 2013 - 02:11 AM.


#10 halfchest

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:18 AM

Obviously these stats don't mean anything but then we also have to say that Pinto's September doesn't mean much either. Despite the hatred it receives from some posters, you can see why TR quickly signed a veteran backup catcher like Fryer. If Pinto and Hermann have to go to the minors (not unlikely), and you throw in an injury (quite likely), we might need the guy.


Agreed you can't think Pinto is going to hit like he did in September but his track record shows he's capable of a nice line in the majors and is much closer to what he did in September than what he's doing in 25 winter ball at bats. I'm almost more interested to hear how he's doing behind the plate and how many innings he's getting in at catcher.

#11 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:40 AM

Adding another a catcher makes sense but the team should have higher priorities if they think Pinto can eventually be an everyday catcher. I don't really care if Pinto is sent to AAA for a few months first or given the job out of ST.

#12 TRex

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:42 AM

Was there this concern over Winter League ball last year? No. And for good reason, because literally nothing is to be gained from this time other than innings and plate appearances. This should be obvious.


I don't know... I think there was quite a lot of (positive) concern that grew out of Winter League ball in past years over Liriano and Deduno. However, it seems likely that it is easier for pitchers to deal with sporadic playing time than hitters.

OBTW, did anyone notice that Arcia has heated up and now has 5 HR over 50 AB (with on OPS of 1.050) (http://mlb.mlb.com/m.../org.jsp?id=min).

#13 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:44 AM

OBTW, did anyone notice that Arcia has heated up and now has 5 HR over 50 AB (with on OPS of 1.050) (http://mlb.mlb.com/m.../org.jsp?id=min).


Well, that's great to see. Again, SSS but he should dominate that level of competition and he is. Strikeouts are still a concern but his power is absolutely legit.

#14 Thrylos

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:45 AM

They added a catcher: Eric Fryer.
Jumping into conclusion from a week's (or two) of plate appearances (and in a foreign country for Herrmann) does not make much sense.

And C should be fifth priority for the team (behind adding three starting pitchers and maybe a SS)
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#15 big dog

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:02 AM

Berardino is killing it, in the sense of being on top of things. Regardless of the interpretation, it's great to get the reports.

#16 kab21

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

I am not comfortable with Pinto/Herrmann as the Twins catching duo and that has not changed based on these winter league stats.

#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

These stats aren't anymore meaningful than a handful of September at bats. Which puts me squarely in the camp of where we were in August - if Mauer isn't catching, this team doesn't have another option.

At least not one that should be playing the position.

#18 Shane Wahl

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:30 AM

Also, um . . . .HELLLOOOO. Eric Fryer representin'.

#19 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:31 AM

We cared about Liriano and Deduno in the Winter League in the sense that they were throwing more strikes AND they were healthy. That's really what it's about is getting guys some extra innings or at bats.

#20 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

And, Berardino is stealing the show this offseason. As a Twins fan, it should be mandatory to follow him on Twitter... and, if you want, you can follow me too! :)

#21 Kwak

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:22 PM

Show of hands please--how many will be comfortable with anyone other than Mauer catching for the Twins?

#22 Boom Boom

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:44 PM

There's no reason the Twins shouldn't be going after a veteran catcher to either split time for Pinto or take over for him in case he goes all Chris Parmelee.

The Twins have plenty of money to supplement the rotation and sign a catcher.

#23 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

Show of hands please--how many will be comfortable with anyone other than Mauer catching for the Twins?


<Raises Hands>

Sure, why not?

#24 Winston Smith

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:07 PM

When have winter league stats ever mattered, whatsoever, for anything about how we view talent?


Like a lot of stats if they help your opinion they mean something if they don't help they are meaningless.

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:08 PM

<Raises Hands>

Sure, why not?


can you raise your hand because you have no expectation of contention or because they will field competent catching?

#26 Thrylos

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

Show of hands please--how many will be comfortable with anyone other than Mauer catching for the Twins?


I do.

I am totally comfortable with both Herrmann and Pinto as far as catching goes, and I have seen them catch (in addition to this season) about a dozen times each. This is not like Drew Butera will be the starting catcher (again)...
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#27 kab21

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:26 PM

Show of hands please--how many will be comfortable with anyone other than Mauer catching for the Twins?


I'm comfortable with someone other than Mauer.

I like Pinto's potential but I don't like him as plan A when plan B is Herrmann and plan C is awful.

#28 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:29 PM

Show of hands please--how many will be comfortable with anyone other than Mauer catching for the Twins?


Yeah, put me down also for "anyone other than Mauer". Ye gods, he was awful back there.

:)

#29 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

IMO the concerns with Pinto at C aren't about his bat at all, its all about if he can stick as an every day guy defensively behind the dish.

Herrmann is basically a replacement level guy, nice depth to have while he is making the minimum, but pretty replaceable most likely.

#30 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 01:51 PM

[COLOR=#333333]Berardino needs some perspective:[/COLOR]
Herrmann played 12 games
Pinto has played 7 games

There is no useful data from that sample. - especially since the players don't really have a spring to get back their timing.
Furthermore the team Pinto is playing for has Wilson Ramos on the squad. Who is DH'ing
Anything Pinto can learn from that guy would be great!


Dang it, I really wanna go there..but I've lost too many internet points lately...Shucks.