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Official 'Twins Aren't Doing Stuff' Thread

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#1 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:33 PM

Opening Statement: I hope that I am proved wrong in the near future, like tomorrow.

As we all sit at our desks, some of us enjoying coffee and others enjoying a different beverage of their choice, I can't help but think to myself "when are we going to make a move?" We were told that we have nearly 40 million in cap space, according to reports. We were told straight from the horses mouth that we are going to aggressively pursue starting pitchers. At this point in time, all we have heard adds up to be rumors. Even the players we are in cahoots with haven't received offers, allegedly. If Terry Ryan and the organization were serious about making this team significantly better and adding top of the line pitching, I would've guessed that we had an offer out on a pitcher. It seemingly appears that we are once again, waiting out the market. Allowing teams to grab whichever pitchers they want, of course for a heavy asking price. While we wait and see which Marquis, Ponson or Ortiz falls to us in January.

I hate to see it. I can't wait for January. I would love for the Twins to grab Garza or Nolasco quickly. Instead, we have seen Terry Ryan suddenly shift his focus to telling us how Duensing or Swarzak are destined to be good starting pitchers for us. This is the last thing I wanted to hear from Ryan. Proclamations about newly acquired Kris Johnson give us the idea that he will be in the 2014 rotation as well.

I can't help but think that we are destined for more of the same for next year. I pray that we are nearing an offer to a pitcher of interest, but I'm not holding my breath. Until then, i'll continue to rest in my desk, dreaming about the day Buxton and Sano arrive.

#2 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:48 PM

It's early in the game. Let's face it, I do not think Minnesota is the top destination for the top free agent pitchers.

I am certainly not saying they cannot acquire a Nolasco, Arroyo or a Hughes, but I would venture to say that these kind of pitchers are in no hurry to sign as they want to get the most money out there and play for a perceived winner.

Let's be honest with ourselves and realize that the Twins will have to have the best offer to sign one of these guys... they might have the best offer when all is said and done, but no certainty of winning, let alone making the playoffs. I would wait until mid-January until getting pissed off or losing hope. :)

Edited by Bark's Lounge, 20 November 2013 - 09:53 PM.

There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#3 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:56 PM

Is 3 years of 90+ losses enough to get pissed off or lose hope? I'm not Mr. throw a hissy fit over here, but enough of the balogna sandies, if you aren't going to truly attempt to land good pitchers, just say it. If you are waiting for the arrival of our young studs to solve all of our problems, then fine.

#4 cmb0252

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

While his interview with Mike Berardino leaves much to be desired all reports from the GM meetings suggested Ryan was uncharacteristically active. After following the Twins off seasons for many years I had never heard the Twins so publicly linked to so many players. Plenty of time for Ryan to make a move. Heck, we haven't even hit the winter meetings yet.

#5 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:15 PM

Is 3 years of 90+ losses enough to get pissed off or lose hope? I'm not Mr. throw a hissy fit over here, but enough of the balogna sandies, if you aren't going to truly attempt to land good pitchers, just say it. If you are waiting for the arrival of our young studs to solve all of our problems, then fine.


Yes, you have the right to be pissed off. I actually think they will attempt to sign a pitcher of significance. The only notable pitchers who have signed with a club is Josh Johnson and Tim Hudson, Johnson was hell bent on playing on the West Coast and Hudson, I am sure he wanted to play for a winner - SF is a great bounce back candidate and Hudson was overpaid.

Please wait until after the Winter Meetings before becoming incensed... at that time, if the Twins do not do anything, a great amount of us will join you in your anger and we will certainly express those emotions. Right now it is premature.

There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#6 darin617

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:17 PM

The Twins have to go out and make a move before another starter signs and the price goes up for any of the named pitchers the Twins claim to be interested in. Just offer Arroyo 2 yr $25-27M and if he holds out for a 3rd yr make it 3 for $37M.
Quit playing the side line and be aggressive for once if you claim you actually want to contend. Then throw a 2yr deal at Kazmir for $17M or so. Then you can wait andsee what is out there if you want to add another starter for the right price.

#7 darin617

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:21 PM

While his interview with Mike Berardino leaves much to be desired all reports from the GM meetings suggested Ryan was uncharacteristically active. After following the Twins off seasons for many years I had never heard the Twins so publicly linked to so many players. Plenty of time for Ryan to make a move. Heck, we haven't even hit the winter meetings yet.


Anyone can paint the picture that they are trying to acquire a couple of quality arms. I hate to say the Twins are most likely going to be like a guy trying to pick up one of the hottest women in the bar. They make an effort and get repeatedly shot down and take home whoever is willing to leave with them at the end of the night.

#8 John Bonnes

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:55 PM

No doubt about it - you've got to man up to follow this team. You might want to take a walk around a lake or something. I'm not even kidding, because it is EARLY, and you'll need electroshock therapy by Xmas if you keep doing this to yourself.

how early? There are at least 16 pitchers better than Correia in this year's handbook, and that's before we get to sleepers like Volquez and Colby Lewis and Santana AMD Halladay and Marcum and Floyd and whoever else. A grand total of TWO have signed so far. So there's still quite a bit left on the shelf.

FWIW, I don't think youll need to wait too long. Since his return, Ryan has liked to finish up his shopping by Xmas. Even Correia was signed by mid-December. It was Smith who dragged it out, waiting for prices to come down (and he had a great deal of success that way, actually - Pavano, Hudson & Thome come to mind).

#9 Trevor0333

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:23 PM

Just when I was starting to believe, this could be the year they actually spend on a FA pitcher.

They appear to be much more aggressive in the headlines in reaching out to players atleast. They had nearly 20 million in dead weight salaries fall of the books in Morneau & Blackburn that is going to increase by another 10-15 million next year with Willigham Doumit & Corriea falling off the books. There is an extra 25 million in revenues from the TV contracts.

After 2 seasons of having one of the worst rotations in baseball. All the ingredients are there for the team to finally splurge on some desperately needed pitching.

Then today, mentioned above. Mike Berardino reports Terry Ryan tells Duesning & Swarzak to prepare to start over the offseason.

Duesning has been an alright bullpen arm against lefties but has always been terrible as a full time starter. Swarzak I can understand experimenting with a little but he was pretty mediocre at best as a starter.

How did I fall for this again, dam you TR, dam you...

#10 Trevor0333

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:26 PM

Kevin Corriea
Sam Deduno
Kris Johnson
Scott Diamond
Swarzak/Duensing

Ladies & Gentleman, your MN 2015 1st overall draft picks

#11 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:06 AM

Kevin Corriea
Sam Deduno
Kris Johnson
Scott Diamond
Swarzak/Duensing

Ladies & Gentleman, your MN 2015 1st overall draft picks


There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#12 Shane Wahl

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:18 AM

I didn't see the Bernadino thing. That's a disgraceful idea.

#13 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:34 AM

If you read the Twins Daily handbook(which is a great read) Terry Ryan practically inferred he was content on not spending any money at all. You could tell by his answers. Nothing will happen this offseason no Arroyo, Nolasco or even Jeff Franocouer......I dont know if its Ownership or Terry Ryan. Eventually people are just going to tune the Twins out once the allure of a new ballpark goes away.

#14 howeda7

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:44 AM

Terry Ryan is simply too cheap and conservative to be the GM of a mid-market team. If they go into 2014 with a $70 million and a trash rotation, there's no one else to blame. He can follow Gardy out the door.

#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:53 AM

Nothing about "talk" matters until they actually make an offer to someone. This happened last year too. Talk and very few offers.

BUT: Eric Fryer, Chris Rahl, and Kris Johnson are in da house!

#16 jokin

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:02 AM

No doubt about it - you've got to man up to follow this team. You might want to take a walk around a lake or something. I'm not even kidding, because it is EARLY, and you'll need electroshock therapy by Xmas if you keep doing this to yourself.

how early? There are at least 16 pitchers better than Correia in this year's handbook, and that's before we get to sleepers like Volquez and Colby Lewis and Santana AMD Halladay and Marcum and Floyd and whoever else. A grand total of TWO have signed so far. So there's still quite a bit left on the shelf.

FWIW, I don't think youll need to wait too long. Since his return, Ryan has liked to finish up his shopping by Xmas. Even Correia was signed by mid-December. It was Smith who dragged it out, waiting for prices to come down (and he had a great deal of success that way, actually - Pavano, Hudson & Thome come to mind).


But TR has already foolishly shown his hand, what SP FA or his Agent gets excited when a prospective employer announces in advance that Kris Johnson, Swarzak and Duensing are early candidates for becoming his fellow SP rotation mates?

TR's pattern has been to cut existing payroll and replace lost personnel at a fraction of the previous year's cost. There is little to indicate that anything this offseason will change that pattern. I think your analysis is correct, as he is wont to do, TR will wait to mid-December and swoop in for a wounded-wing bounceback or "sleeper" candidate on the cheap, and perhaps sign the Korean pitcher Suk. (...but I repeat myself......)

Gotta admit though, TR changed it up a little this offseason, though, now he's punting on 1st Down instead of 2nd. But hey, he did replace that gaping hole left with the departure of one Cletus Thomas:

"Twins sign soon-to-be-30-year-old RH OF, Chris Raul......"
http://www.fangraphs...400&position=OF

Let me save you the click....in AAA in 2013, Raul had a 2.4% BB rate......coupled with his 23.2% K rate, further coupled with a BABIP-ically artificially-high slash line . Encouraging.

Edited by jokin, 21 November 2013 - 01:19 AM.


#17 jokin

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:17 AM

Nothing about "talk" matters until they actually make an offer to someone. This happened last year too. Talk and very few offers.

BUT: Eric Fryer, Chris Rahl, and Kris Johnson are in da house!


Sorry, didn't mean to step on your riff, I was typing ("hyping") the wonders of Chris Rahl as you were posting. I've got to get back under the covers due to this case of Twins Fever I'm experiencing!

#18 Shane Wahl

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:49 AM

Sorry, didn't mean to step on your riff, I was typing ("hyping") the wonders of Chris Rahl as you were posting. I've got to get back under the covers due to this case of Twins Fever I'm experiencing!


Yeah, I am going to do that too.

#19 jay

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:21 AM

So, which is it...
a.) you guys think the only players ever added to the organization should be the very best FAs, or...
b.) you're just rolling with easy targets that have nothing to do with whether or not they'll sign any decent FAs this year?

My assumption is leaning towards b.) and I don't quite get it outside of endless snark for the sake of it.

#20 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:03 AM

No doubt about it - you've got to man up to follow this team. You might want to take a walk around a lake or something. I'm not even kidding, because it is EARLY, and you'll need electroshock therapy by Xmas if you keep doing this to yourself.

how early? There are at least 16 pitchers better than Correia in this year's handbook, and that's before we get to sleepers like Volquez and Colby Lewis and Santana AMD Halladay and Marcum and Floyd and whoever else. A grand total of TWO have signed so far. So there's still quite a bit left on the shelf.

FWIW, I don't think youll need to wait too long. Since his return, Ryan has liked to finish up his shopping by Xmas. Even Correia was signed by mid-December. It was Smith who dragged it out, waiting for prices to come down (and he had a great deal of success that way, actually - Pavano, Hudson & Thome come to mind).


Come on man, really? I'm stating that the Twins are in the same shell. Currently i'm correct. I realize were not going to hear about it every time we offer a guy a contract, but when players are flat out saying "The Twins haven't made an offer" I tend to believe that. I expected more, not less from TR. As far as the 16 better pitchers according to your book? Who cares, (No offense, although I've never owned or read it, I've heard positives) how many players were better than Corriea in your book last year? How many of those players did we sign?

IMO, when you stink, you need to be a little bit more aggressive than you need to be when you are good. I believe that is why Bill Smith was able to wait it out and sign pretty decent players towards the end of FA, for pretty reasonable dollar amounts.

It just appears that we are going to settle into our roots and sign run of the mill guys, again. I hope I can eat Crow Pie on this.

#21 JB_Iowa

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:05 AM

I'm an unashamed pessimist about the management of this team at this point. I find it helpful to take "vacations" from this board and from Twins news.

Honestly, reading it every day is about enough to send a person out on a ledge.

You have to take it all with a box (forget a grain) of salt. And you really do have to start singing "Que Sera Sera" -- what will be, will be (where is Doris Day when you need her?). Because other than boycotting Twins games & merchandise, there isn't a heck of a lot you can do.

(P.S. Did I put enough cliches in there?)

#22 spycake

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:16 AM

how early? There are at least 16 pitchers better than Correia in this year's handbook, and that's before we get to sleepers like Volquez and Colby Lewis and Santana AMD Halladay and Marcum and Floyd and whoever else. A grand total of TWO have signed so far. So there's still quite a bit left on the shelf.


John, I don't think this thread is a reaction to a couple free agent pitchers signing elsewhere. It's a reaction to TR announcing 2 modest relievers and a marginal AAA starter have been added to the rotation mix.

Twins 40-man roster now has the following 12 starting pitchers:

Albers
Correia
Darnell
Deduno
Diamond
Duensing
Gibson
Hendriks
Johnson
May
Swarzak
Worley

Correia and Gibson should have spots, and most observers are in agreement that the Twins need to add two legit arms from outside.

That leaves... 10 guys on the 40-man roster competing for the 5th starter spot, or headed to the pen/Rochester? That doesn't seem right at all. I think the Twins -- just like they did in 2012 and 2013 -- are counting on these guys WAY more than they should. (As much as they did in 2012 and 2013, which turned out quite poorly.)

#23 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:36 AM

I'm an unashamed pessimist about the management of this team at this point. I find it helpful to take "vacations" from this board and from Twins news.

Honestly, reading it every day is about enough to send a person out on a ledge.

You have to take it all with a box (forget a grain) of salt. And you really do have to start singing "Que Sera Sera" -- what will be, will be (where is Doris Day when you need her?). Because other than boycotting Twins games & merchandise, there isn't a heck of a lot you can do.

(P.S. Did I put enough cliches in there?)


Did you get an opportunity to review Seth's projection of what our favorite team will look like come the season opener in 2015? I can't get Joan Jett's "I Love Rock and Roll" to stop playing.

#24 JB_Iowa

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:53 AM

Did you get an opportunity to review Seth's projection of what our favorite team will look like come the season opener in 2015? I can't get Joan Jett's "I Love Rock and Roll" to stop playing.



I take everything Seth says with a box of salt, too. (And that is not being mean but of all the Twins Daily writers, I find Seth to be one of the most -- if not the most -- bullish on this team. Even over the last 3 years. He has been optimistic even in the midst of despair. That's his right but I'm not going to buy into it).

Look, I like where the Twins farm system is at. But prospects are just that, prospects. I hope the Twins are contenders in 2015.

But even if they are, nothing TR has done to date gives me any hope that he would take the necessary risks to move them from division contenders to a team that could actually win in the playoffs.

Been burned too many times by hopefulness regarding this team.

I would prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than to have my hopes dashed once again.

#25 Thrylos

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:58 AM

It is too early indeed. Give it until February :)

Interestingly enough, I remember hearing the same thing (even after the winter meetings, a bit later than now) before the 2010 season. Then they closed a couple of holes with signing Hudson and Thome at the late January/February time frame and things happened...

Not that this team is only a couple players away, just that there is still time and most of the pitching target they have been connected with are still out there.

I take TRs recent comments to mean a. Last year's rotation was horrible and we got Johnson who is better than Diamond and might be ahead of the horribles and b. because it was so horrible, if Duensing and Swarzak won to win a rotation spot at ST, let them at it.

Now if come mid-late February the Twins have done nothing or additional bottom feeding, we shall discuss it then :)

Edited by Thrylos, 21 November 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:08 AM

Way too early to judge anything. Yeah, it's possible that Ryan holds the line and continues to underspend.

On the other hand, we're hearing rumors of real interest by the Twins in some pricey players. We didn't hear that in years past. The Winter Meetings haven't happened yet. Only one or two guys have signed out of a pool of nearly 20.

Getting frustrated now is like turning off a baseball game in the top of the first because the starter walked a guy with one out.

#27 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:10 AM

* Notice the title of the thread - **EARLY JUDGEMENT** it is just how I see things shaking out in the beginning processes of this free agency period.

#28 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:17 AM

Way too early to judge anything. Yeah, it's possible that Ryan holds the line and continues to underspend.

On the other hand, we're hearing rumors of real interest by the Twins in some pricey players. We didn't hear that in years past. The Winter Meetings haven't happened yet. Only one or two guys have signed out of a pool of nearly 20.

Getting frustrated now is like turning off a baseball game in the top of the first because the starter walked a guy with one out.


Nice analogy. To this point, TR is doing the same old song and dance. I realize it is early, people can stop saying that. This is the same old stuff we have heard from TR before, I'm not sure how others are not seeing it. He pretends to have interest in all of the upper tier players(below the top tier) until they are overpriced and signed. Then he has his pick of the litter at the lower tier of FA.

I'm truly not being a "negative Nancy" about the Twins or Terry Ryan. I love this team. I'm just speaking the truth at the early stages of this off-season.

Rocketpig- tell me what real interest is? TR saying that he likes a player? That we have made contact with agents? They have all said no contracts have been offered from Minnesota. Until there is a legitimate offer, I see no difference in the way we are going about things. Which means we will stay bad until our prospects get here.

#29 Rosterman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:19 AM

It is still early. There are only so many places the couple of dozen free agent starters can go. But I can't get excited about Duensing (a career low i innings pitched this past season where the supposed long-relief guy became an left specialist) and Swarzak, who wants to start, but fared very well out of the bullpen. Plus, both are tradable commodities and CAN be replaced. I don't get excited hearing their bumper music, sorry...and won';t be lining up at Twinsfest to meet or see them.

Terry Ryan, if you are going to put an AAAA team on the field, the stands will be half-full, people will leave the game early, you won't see too many jerseys, and the money not spent doesn't carry over to the next season. At least when you invest in a player, that money is carried over to the next season and can be freeded up by trading the player possibly.
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#30 Rosterman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:29 AM

Darnell, Meyer, May, Gibson could all be starting at Rochester. You can switch Hendriks to the bullpen there. Duensing and Swarzak should be bullpen in the majors. Diamond should also get consideration as the new long-man in the bullpen. Johnson and Albers can fight it out for a long-man job in Rochester. Someone can always start at New Britain. Before siging any more minor free agents, the Twins have Vasquez and DSean and Wimmers and Baxendale also in the minor league mix.

But Correia is the only major league lock. Deduno may still be recovering. Worley needs to get some starts to prove his worth. The Twins are solely lacking four starters to open the season. They could easily sign up to three bodies AND Santana as a project and not hurt the growth of anyone, considering Correia will come off the books in 2015 and two of the signed starters would probably be on 2-year deals. The Twins do have the $$$ today and will have the $$$ for a couple of years (and more) and can afford to gamble on arms. No one says you have to keep a signed pitcher for the entire contract if someone better shows up in the system (or in the marketplace). But, yes, sadly the Twins will have to blow a pitcher away with an offer to come here...or be really agressive and sign a BUNCH of quality guys that give a greater impression of winning, rather than total from the scratch see what we have bottom feeder rebuilding.

I WANT TO HAVE TO PAY FULL-PRICE FOR A TICKET IN 2014, TERRY! Although the idea of $5 seats for a game and being alone in a section is not always bad!
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