Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Bullpen Farmhands

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 SirLoin

SirLoin

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

If you listen to the likes of Bonnes and Gleeman (which I do), Jeff Gray is the relief pitcher equivalent of Drew Butera. That being said, I'd like to get some insight on some relief pitcher prospects we have in the system. The first two that come to mind are Deolis Guerra and Cole DeVries. Guerra - Just how hard does this guy throw? He's been downright nasty so far in AA. He's had a cup of coffee with Rochester, as a starter I believe. How much longer does he have to keep up this pace to get up to AAA? Considering he's on the 40 man roster, and the last remaining piece of Billy Boner #2, isn't about time we see if we have a bona fide relief prospect on our hands? DeVries - He's been starting at Rochester, but has been a reliever in the past. Between last season and this season, he has had a solid strikeout to walk ratio, which is the extent of my stat-geekyness. Of course he's not on the 40-man, but he seems like a legitmate long relief prospect, or maybe Pat Neshek 2.0 (without the funky motion and a diploma from a douchier Minnesota high school:p). Thoughts?

#2 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

Athletics claimed RHP Rich Thompson off waivers from the Angels.

#3 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 4,985 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:06 PM

Both of those names are intriguing. I don't think it's too crazy to think they could call up Guerra straight from AA. He's been on the 40 man roster for at least 2 years, right? So would next year be his last option year? 8K in 8IP with no walks and just three hits? That's awfully encouraging. Did anyone else see DeVries having this good of a start in AAA? I didn't. 15/4 in 15 IP.

#4 SirLoin

SirLoin

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:15 PM

Both of those names are intriguing.

I don't think it's too crazy to think they could call up Guerra straight from AA. He's been on the 40 man roster for at least 2 years, right? So would next year be his last option year? 8K in 8IP with no walks and just three hits? That's awfully encouraging.

Did anyone else see DeVries having this good of a start in AAA? I didn't. 15/4 in 15 IP.


I'd be curious to see what Guerra would do against AAA hitters before being called up, but if he keeps up that stat line, why not bring him up? It's not like we'd be any worse off from a bullpen perspective. Maybe DeVries needs a full year at AAA before he gets added to the 40 man, but I think he's got some potential in the long relief/spot start role.

#5 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

I like both of those guys a lot (and Manship), much more so than Jeff Gray, Matt Maloney, and Anthony Swarzak.

#6 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,794 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:57 PM

[QUOTE]Guerra - Just how hard does this guy throw? He's been downright nasty so far in AA.[/QUOTE]

He doesn't throw that hard. 88-92. His best pitch is a very good changeup and a still-improving curveball. I was glad he went back to start the season at AA just to kind of verify what he did last year out of the bullpen, and so far, so good.

[QUOTE]DeVries - He's been starting at Rochester, but has been a reliever in the past.[/QUOTE]

DeVries is too old to be considered a prospect at this point, but that doesn't mean he isn't or couldn't be a good pitcher. He dominated last year in the bullpen in AA and quickly moved up to Rochester and pitched well in all kinds of roles, short-relief, long-relief, spot starts. His big league role would be long reliever. I'd like to see him get a cup of coffee. Doesn't possess great stuff, relies on control.

[QUOTE]I don't think it's too crazy to think they could call up Guerra straight from AA. He's been on the 40 man roster for at least 2 years, right? So would next year be his last option year?[/QUOTE]

This is his last option year. Next year, he has to make the Twins roster or be put on waivers.

[QUOTE]Did anyone else see DeVries having this good of a start in AAA? I didn't. 15/4 in 15 IP.[/QUOTE]

Me. He was pretty solid last year, and he was very good in the Arizona Fall League. He's a veteran type now, so he's become a better pitcher. He's never really walked guys. it's encouraging to see the K's remain at 1 per inning. last year was the first time he had done that in the upper levels.

[QUOTE] Maybe DeVries needs a full year at AAA before he gets added to the 40 man, but I think he's got some potential in the long relief/spot start role.[/QUOTE]

He's been eligible for the Rule 5 draft the last two years. If the Twins do not add him to the 40 man roster following the season, he came become a six-year minor league free agent. That is likely.

[QUOTE]I like both of those guys a lot (and Manship),[/QUOTE]

Of the 3, Manship has the best stuff, for sure. Guerra's got a long way to go before he's ready.

#7 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 4,985 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

Of the 3, Manship has the best stuff, for sure. Guerra's got a long way to go before he's ready.


But he doesn't have much time. I gotta think they'll at least try calling him up this year.

#8 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,431 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

Re: Cole DeVries: Frankly with the mass of MiLB free agents who were signed by the Twins this off-season and were given invites to the MiLB camp in ST, I was disappointed that Cole DeVries after his stellar 2011 season which was followed by an excellent AFL appearance was not given an invite. If I were to venture a guess, I think that what we see here is that Cole DeVries has the same "fault" that this organization found in Kevin Slowey, RA Dickey and Craig Breslow: they are all too smart for the manager and his coaches...

Re: Deolis Guerra: When I saw him in ST a month ago he had control issues. Apparently these are not any more. He is throwing a sinker at low 90s up to 93, a great slow curve at mid-high 70s and a change up. I think that he has been playing around with a slider a bit but never heard of that amounting to anything. As Seth said, this is his year to make it to the bigs because it is his last option year. I think that he will be up at least in September
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#9 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,794 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:58 PM

But he doesn't have much time. I gotta think they'll at least try calling him up this year.


There is zero question that Deolis Guerra will get some time with the Twins late this year.

#10 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,794 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

On last night's Twins Minor League Weekly, I said there is a definite comparison between Cole DeVries and Rule 5 pick Terry Doyle. They're pretty much the same pitcher.

#11 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Manager-in-Waiting

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,471 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

Manship has better stuff than Guerra? Wow--what I've seen of Manship is a pretty good breaking ball and nothing else that is exciting. He only throws about 90 and when with the Twins "works backwards" quite often, nibbling early in the count and often pitching from behind. Hardly the sign of a guy with "good stuff".

#12 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:58 PM

the AA equivilant of DeVries is Steve Hirshfield. He has done nothing more than get guys out at every level & have dominating numbers in New Brit last yr for the first 3 months, but no promotion

#13 TRex

TRex

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 344 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:42 PM

Hey Seth, I am not so sure about the comps between Cole DeVries and Terry Doyle. It was written that Doyle typically picks up a few mph on the gun as the season goes on, and that he was hitting 93-94 in the AFL. I don't think DeVries ever had that kind of fastball. I think the Twins just took Doyle hoping he could maintain that velocity.

#14 Bark's Lounge

Bark's Lounge

    Whatchamacallit is the Best Candy Bar

  • Members
  • 1,852 posts
  • LocationKerguelen Island

Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:21 PM

The somewhat ho-hum comments by Seth on Guerra are discouraging. That means we have no reinforcement relief pitchers from the minors that are more than an Elmer's Glue sealant on open blisters on fingertips. That sucks. I hope Seth is wrong.

#15 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Manager-in-Waiting

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,471 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:05 PM

The somewhat ho-hum comments by Seth on Guerra are discouraging. That means we have no reinforcement relief pitchers from the minors that are more than an Elmer's Glue sealant on open blisters on fingertips. That sucks. I hope Seth is wrong.

I think it is just plain tough to figure out pitching. Who ever thought Juan Rincon could come up to the majors and be an outstanding setup guy? How about Matt Guerrier? There is a pretty long list of players who were under the radar and become competent (or better) pitchers, especially in the bullpen. Guerra seems to have found his form in the bullpen. The Twins had several guys that looked pretty good in ST. I particularly liked Casey Fien and Waldrop. Fien has gone down to Rochester and pitched very well, Waldrop was injured. Diamond and Fien have been the best pitchers at Rochester--check their WHIPs, not ERAs. At New Britain, Guerra, Turpen, French and Hirschfield have been very good. I think there is some pitching help in the minor leagues and I don't think the Twins' current bullpen is that bad.

#16 Bark's Lounge

Bark's Lounge

    Whatchamacallit is the Best Candy Bar

  • Members
  • 1,852 posts
  • LocationKerguelen Island

Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:30 PM

I think it is just plain tough to figure out pitching. Who ever thought Juan Rincon could come up to the majors and be an outstanding setup guy? How about Matt Guerrier? There is a pretty long list of players who were under the radar and become competent (or better) pitchers, especially in the bullpen. Guerra seems to have found his form in the bullpen. The Twins had several guys that looked pretty good in ST. I particularly liked Casey Fien and Waldrop. Fien has gone down to Rochester and pitched very well, Waldrop was injured. Diamond and Fien have been the best pitchers at Rochester--check their WHIPs, not ERAs. At New Britain, Guerra, Turpen, French and Hirschfield have been very good. I think there is some pitching help in the minor leagues and I don't think the Twins' current bullpen is that bad.

It has started bad enough, especially with an awful starting rotation. I will only list the valid relievers
Duensing: Sufficient
Perkins: Awful so far, but hopeful.
Burnett: Very good so far, not so sure this is truth
Capps: his stats indicate what he is.... not good.... not great.... not bad

#17 30whales

30whales

    Member

  • Members
  • 92 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:15 AM

Where is Lester Oliveros?

#18 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,794 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

Where is Lester Oliveros?


AA New Britain.

#19 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

The somewhat ho-hum comments by Seth on Guerra are discouraging. That means we have no reinforcement relief pitchers from the minors that are more than an Elmer's Glue sealant on open blisters on fingertips. That sucks. I hope Seth is wrong.


I think he just means that he has to perform well in the relief role again for some time this year before we get too excited (again) about the guy. He was definitely mishandled starting with the Mets (they are good at doing that).

By July I would not be totally surprised if Manship, Oliveros, Guerra, Robertson, and DeVries had already been called up or were soon to be called up by the Twins. That says something about each of them and also something about what I think of Swarzak, Maloney, and Gray (here's hoping that Burnett and Burton don't join that list).

#20 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Manager-in-Waiting

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,471 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

I don't know why Maloney has been put on a list of suspects. I like how he goes about his job and his numbers are okay. As a matter of fact, I think Maloney should be the guy to replace Liriano if Frankie implodes again. Maloney has been a starter through his minor league career, with pretty good numbers. I understand that Maloney was recovering from an injury last year, but prior to that his major league numbers weren't bad either, especially considering the home park for the Reds.

#21 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,794 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

I'm definitely not down on Guerra at all. I also can't get excited about 8 innings. He is where he needs to be and where he should be... let's let him get to 25-30 innings and then talk about moving him up

#22 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,164 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

Well, thank God Maloney, Gray, and Burton are dumb enough to play for Gardy. Unlike those exceptional performers of the past like Slowey, Dickey and Breslow. Another steaming pile of bunk from thrylos.