Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

The dreaded return of Butera

  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 James

James

    Sideburns Specialist

  • Members
  • 1,984 posts
  • LocationThe dive bars of NE Minneapolis

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:04 AM

Gardy is already making a public case from bringing back a third catcher. The article is basically pleading the case for bringing Butera back to the 25-man roster.

http://mlb.mlb.com/n...rtnerId=rss_min

Full disclosure: Gardy never said Butera's name, he just said "the third catcher situation."

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.


#2 mikeee

mikeee

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 889 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:11 AM

Noooooooooooo!

#3 TwinsFanLV

TwinsFanLV

    Member

  • Members
  • 55 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11). Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!

#4 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 5,342 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

Interesting quote by Gardenhire in that article:

"What that will be, I don't know. I'm still debating on the third catcher situation."


Unless he is debating with himself, which is not out of the realm of possibility, there seem to be saner voices in the organization...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#5 James

James

    Sideburns Specialist

  • Members
  • 1,984 posts
  • LocationThe dive bars of NE Minneapolis

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11).

Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!


You are correct that he should never start and the criticism should be directed at Gardy and Ryan. But, if you are going to carry a third catcher, find one that has a better line than .178/.220/.261.

Edited by James, 20 April 2012 - 09:33 AM.

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.


#6 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,167 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:47 AM

Well said, TwinsFanLV!

#7 sotafan

sotafan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

There is not one catcher in the minors that should be called up and but on the bench(and ever start). NOT ONE!!!!!! Get over yourself Gardy. NOOO you DO NOT need a 3rd catcher. Thank God Ryan as a brain!!

#8 Rosterman

Rosterman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,502 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:57 AM

The couple of times that a pitcher MAY need to bat - let's have Luke Hughes or someo ne available to PH then.......naw! The backup is Duomit. Yes, we may want him to field a bit better...but you can't have everything, and with Butera/Rivera/Towles you have nothing.

#9 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,966 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11).

Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!


Give Butera a break? Why? The guy had the worst statistical batting season of any position player since the '50's!! Stevie Wonder could have got on base more than him. How does that warrant a break?

The definition of "Dreaded" in Webster's is "Drew Butera". I agree with your points on having a 3rd catcher, just not who.

Yes, there is a useful purpose to having 12-13 pitchers, we need them all to get through 9 innings.

#10 Todd G

Todd G

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

Drew Butera is a wasted bench spot. This team does not have 2 or 3 at bats a week they can afford to throw away.

#11 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

13 pitchers will resolve itself. It was a temporary solution to the uncertainty surrounding Blackburn and Perkins. A third catcher is probably unnecessary though, particularly when one can make a case that the crappy starting pitching means a 7 man bullpen is defensible.

#12 Ultima Ratio

Ultima Ratio

    PMS jokes are the best, period.

  • Members
  • 1,916 posts
  • LocationHere

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

With Doumit's ABs limited due to the RF musical chair addition of Clete, why add any player that takes away ABs at catcher? OR, will this third Catcher only sit on the bench in case of emergency, never getting in except as a late inning replacement for Doumit at C? Until there is a plan for Doumit getting regular ABs, I don't see how bringing another C up makes any sense. It only makes sense if they intend to put Doumit in RF regularly.
Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

#13 gmarais66

gmarais66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

A few minutes ago, on 1500, Gardy was asked about the third catcher and the whole situation sounded up in the air... Reusse mentioned that Rivera worked well with Liriano last year... Gardy mention Towles as somone to bring up if you want a third catcher who can hit... He also said Towles can play some third or OF, giving him more options...

#14 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 5,342 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:15 PM

I don't see how bringing another C up makes any sense. It only makes sense if they intend to put Doumit in RF regularly.


It does not make sense even if they put Doumit in RF regularly... Then Mauer will be the Catcher and if something happens to him, Doumit can come in and Catch at that point. Gardy's unsubstantiated fear is that he will lose the DH if one of the 2 Cs is DHing and the other gets hurt. Nuts.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#15 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 5,342 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

He also said Towles can play some third or OF, giving him more options...


interesting... I guess 4 players who can play third (Valencia, Burroughs, Carroll, Plouffe) and a whole bunch of people who can play the OF do not give him enough options now...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#16 Ultima Ratio

Ultima Ratio

    PMS jokes are the best, period.

  • Members
  • 1,916 posts
  • LocationHere

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

It does not make sense even if they put Doumit in RF regularly... Then Mauer will be the Catcher and if something happens to him, Doumit can come in and Catch at that point. Gardy's unsubstantiated fear is that he will lose the DH if one of the 2 Cs is DHing and the other gets hurt. Nuts.

I agree with you. I guess I should say I don't like having 2 Cs either, and I wouldn't to do it. Since I don't see Gardy putting Doumit in RF regularly, it doesn't make sense is my bottom line. Even then, I still agree with you. This scenario makes even less sense if Doumit is on the bench (Mauer catching and Clete in RF) AND ALSO having a third catcher. Fair enough?

Also, I thought the same thing about having so may guys who can play many positions. I don't call that added versatility, I call that intentially moving players out of position to fill an imagined stop-gap defensive emergency.

Edited by Ultima Ratio, 20 April 2012 - 12:29 PM.

Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

#17 gmarais66

gmarais66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

P.S. While on 1500, Gardy said Willingham had agreed to be the emergency catcher, since he was once a catcher...

#18 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,273 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:13 PM

I'm a little intrigued by the hand-wringing about this. What is the concern, exactly? 1. Are we worried about losing one of the bullpen pitchers to waivers? (I have a little trouble believing that.) 2. Is there a different player we want called up who would provide so much more value as the last guy on the bench? (It can't be Hughes, because it hasn't been 10 days, right?) I can understand being generally opposed to having a 3rd catcher, just like I can understand being generally opposed to a 13 man pitching staff. But this isn't a theoretical situation. From a practical standpoint, what is the downside here?

#19 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,966 posts

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

I'm a little intrigued by the hand-wringing about this. What is the concern, exactly?
1. Are we worried about losing one of the bullpen pitchers to waivers? (I have a little trouble believing that.)
2. Is there a different player we want called up who would provide so much more value as the last guy on the bench? (It can't be Hughes, because it hasn't been 10 days, right?)

I can understand being generally opposed to having a 3rd catcher, just like I can understand being generally opposed to a 13 man pitching staff. But this isn't a theoretical situation. From a practical standpoint, what is the downside here?



The downside is that it might end up being the worst hitter in the modern history of baseball.

#20 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 5,342 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

The downside is that it might end up being the worst hitter in the modern history of baseball.


+1 (and not only the modern history, Ancient history as well)

and with Gardenhire's need to play him at least every 5 days when Pavano starts, you know that the team will have at least 200 futile PAs.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98