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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:58 AM

Because it's always fun to point out how rich the Pohlads are and how much of it isn't going to the payroll. (Even if I actually agree with Ryan's plan).

MLB Team Valuations - Bloomberg

According to Bloomberg, Twins total value is worth 700m and team value is 595m. Revenue for last year was about 215m so next years payroll could be 111m or so (on a 52% revenue to budget).

#2 JB_Iowa

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

Always nice to see updated figures.

Presumably that means that about $25 million or more of the 50-52% went unspent this year.

Maybe they could give all season ticket holders a nice rebate? Or throw a great party for the state of Minnesota? Or make an extra-special donation to Twins charities? Or announce that they were putting that money in trust to be held for when they need to spend more than 52% to "put them over the top".

The possibilities are myriad for doing things other than merely pocketing profit.

#3 gunnarthor

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:12 AM

Always nice to see updated figures.

Or make an extra-special donation to Twins charities? Or announce that they were putting that money in trust to be held for when they need to spend more than 52% to "put them over the top".


Actually, both of those ideas are pretty good. I'd love to get one of the Pohlads on record on that. If the Twins are underpaying now (by a lot) and will do so for a number of years, it seems fair that they overspend to keep the nucleus together down the road.

Or write a 20m check to some charity to fight cancer.

#4 mike wants wins

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:20 AM

Don't forget, they get tens of millions more in revenue next year....from the new tv deal.
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#5 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

Always nice to see updated figures.

Presumably that means that about $25 million or more of the 50-52% went unspent this year.

Maybe they could give all season ticket holders a nice rebate? Or throw a great party for the state of Minnesota? Or make an extra-special donation to Twins charities? Or announce that they were putting that money in trust to be held for when they need to spend more than 52% to "put them over the top".

The possibilities are myriad for doing things other than merely pocketing profit.


I'm hoping for a down payment on a Tanaka posting fee.

#6 jay

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

Presumably that means that about $25 million or more of the 50-52% went unspent this year.

Maybe they could give all season ticket holders a nice rebate?


Given attendance was 2.5M, that nicely works out to $10 for every single ticket. I either want that $1620, or this...

I'm hoping for a down payment on a Tanaka posting fee.


#7 Marta Shearing

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

Always nice to see updated figures.
Presumably that means that about $25 million or more of the 50-52% went unspent this year.

Maybe they could give all season ticket holders a nice rebate? Or throw a great party for the state of Minnesota? Or make an extra-special donation to Twins charities? Or announce that they were putting that money in trust to be held for when they need to spend more than 52% to "put them over the top".

The possibilities are myriad for doing things other than merely pocketing profit.


Thats the thing that gets me. Why not save money from the years they're under 50-52% and save it for years when they can spend more? Instead they're on a year to year basis. How convenient. What I wouldnt give for an owner happy to break even and spend the rest on payroll. Its not like Calvin Griffith. The Twins were his livelihood. His ONLY source of income. The Pohlad's have made their billions elsewhere. That family is truly disgraceful.

#8 SweetOne69

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:06 PM

Given attendance was 2.5M, that nicely works out to $10 for every single ticket. I either want that $1620, or this...


I believe the correct total is $810.

#9 Thrylos

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:20 PM

Don't forget, they get tens of millions more in revenue next year....from the new tv deal.


That has been estimated to $35 million.

So Ryan has the following $ to spend to bring a winner in 2014 (and beyond) :

$215+35M = $240 M est. revenues
52% of that is $125 M . $60 M is allocated already, which leaves:

$65 million.

A good GM can create a competitive team with that much cash to spend in free agency and in trade and sign situations (if necessary.) Let's see what Ryan will do.

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#10 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:35 PM

Thats the thing that gets me. Why not save money from the years they're under 50-52% and save it for years when they can spend more? Instead they're on a year to year basis. How convenient. What I wouldnt give for an owner happy to break even and spend the rest on payroll. Its not like Calvin Griffith. The Twins were his livelihood. His ONLY source of income. The Pohlad's have made their billions elsewhere. That family is truly disgraceful.


In fact, that's the way they do it. An article posted here sometime ago, quoted Jim Pohlad as saying 50% of revenue would be used for payroll on average.

When the Pohlads donated $2,000,000 to help build the new baseball field at my alma mater, we didn't feel they were disgraceful at all.

Edited by howieramone, 08 November 2013 - 11:47 PM.


#11 Marta Shearing

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:21 AM

Well they came nowhere close to 50% last season so they got a long way to go on 2014's payroll to "average" things out. It takes alot of nerve. Get the public to build them a stadium, then put a team like that out there three years in a row. And their idea to charge prople to watch batting practice? All you need to know.

#12 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:05 AM

Well they came nowhere close to 50% last season so they got a long way to go on 2014's payroll to "average" things out. It takes alot of nerve. Get the public to build them a stadium, then put a team like that out there three years in a row. And their idea to charge prople to watch batting practice? All you need to know.


I read an article recently where a Hennepin County official talked about how pleased they were with partnering with the Pohlads in building Target Field. He talked about how they took basically a useless piece of property, in what he called a boundary area and built beautiful Target Field. You do know the Twins attract more visitors to Downtown Minneapolis than all the other sports teams in town combined right?

Edited by howieramone, 09 November 2013 - 01:07 AM.


#13 Rosterman

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:18 AM

That has been estimated to $35 million.

So Ryan has the following $ to spend to bring a winner in 2014 (and beyond) :

$215+35M = $240 M est. revenues
52% of that is $125 M . $60 M is allocated already, which leaves:

$65 million.

A good GM can create a competitive team with that much cash to spend in free agency and in trade and sign situations (if necessary.) Let's see what Ryan will do.

No excuses.


Okay, so you add the $35 million TV money. Why does half of that go to operations and such (i.e. probably profit). I still haven't figured out the 52% of revenue. When they make more, do they give front office bonuses, make gold keys for the washrooms, hire more staff, start another minor league club, spend more on international players?

It seems management will be able to pay off their investment in the stadium sooner rather than later. Now they can do that and not show a profit. Maybe the good news is that later they will spend to show less taxable profit.

But, in the end, when owners of any sport complain about monies, the golden but is the selling of the franchise somewhere down the line and making a mint!
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#14 goulik

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:20 AM

Well they came nowhere close to 50% last season so they got a long way to go on 2014's payroll to "average" things out. It takes alot of nerve. Get the public to build them a stadium, then put a team like that out there three years in a row. And their idea to charge prople to watch batting practice? All you need to know.

They also greatly increased payroll right after getting the new stadium and have stayed above the previous payroll ever since. It has been made clear that Ryan did not spend as much as he had been allotted by the Pohlads and they have made it clear in the press that they want TR to be much more aggressive this offseason. Bashing the Pohlads in this way does not hold up very well.

Personally, I would like to see a change made with BP. I would like to watch it and charging an early entrance fee to enter is better than not being able to see it at all... I think it should be free to enter early but that is not the common MLB practice league wide.

#15 goulik

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:29 AM

Hartman: Pohlad ready to spend for free-agent players | Star Tribune

#16 Winston Smith

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:01 AM

Don't forget this family was willing to let the team go away and be contracted. Does that really seem like something a real loyal baseball person (family) would do or someone that is only concerned about making money?

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#17 Thrylos

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:11 AM

Don't forget this family was willing to let the team go away and be contracted. Does that really seem like something a real loyal baseball person (family) would do or someone that is only concerned about making money?


That was in another Millennium.

Jim Pohlad is not alive. The Pohlad kids had/have nothing to do with baseball (and it is so painfully obvious) and the contraction. DNA does not carry blame.

However, the Front Office that was working under Pohlad for the contraction is still around (Other than Bell who retired). So if you want to blame current Twins' personnel for that, look at St. Peter, Ryan and Co and not the Pohlads. They were not around, St. Peter, Ryan & Co were.

History will tell, but still not sure whether the contraction was not more of a boogeyman tactic for 2 uninterested fan-bases, which resulting in moving one team (Expos) and a new ballpark for the other (Twins.) Interestingly enough, similar rumors have been heard this millennium for the As and the Rays...
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#18 Winston Smith

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:20 AM

Phil Miller has this at the Strib.

Losing costs Twins half their TV audience | Star Tribune

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#19 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:29 AM

Don't forget this family was willing to let the team go away and be contracted. Does that really seem like something a real loyal baseball person (family) would do or someone that is only concerned about making money?


IIRC selling or contracting the Twins offered substantial estate tax saving. The Twins while mired in the Dome were a borderline profitable enterprise, soon facing substantial operational losses, with no other local group stepping up to purchase the team. As I heard it, family members convinced Carl Pohlad to retain ownership. I know I will be forever grateful to the Pohlads for keeping the Twins in Minnesota during my lifetime.

#20 drivlikejehu

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:45 AM

The Twins only exist because a judge bent the law. Pohlad was 100% committed to contraction.

#21 righty8383

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:19 AM

Does anybody know of a bank that will loan me $700,000,000? I'll even offer my car as collateral, its worth about 5k

#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:34 AM

Phil Miller has this at the Strib.

Losing costs Twins half their TV audience | Star Tribune


Itll be interesting to so how quickly the ticket sales start doing the same.

#23 Marta Shearing

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:35 AM

They also greatly increased payroll right after getting the new stadium and have stayed above the previous payroll ever since. It has been made clear that Ryan did not spend as much as he had been allotted by the Pohlads and they have made it clear in the press that they want TR to be much more aggressive this offseason.

We hear similar garbage every offseason. I'll believe it when I see it. Has any team spent less in free agency the last 20 years? What's the most they ever spent? 3/$21m to Willingham.

Edited by Marta Shearing, 09 November 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#24 snepp

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 08:11 PM

In fact, that's the way they do it. An article posted here sometime ago, quoted Jim Pohlad as saying 50% of revenue would be used for payroll on average.


If fact, you should be able to tell us when they have taken excess payroll savings and re-allocated it toward future years.

#25 twinsnorth49

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

That was in another Millennium.

Jim Pohlad is not alive. The Pohlad kids had/have nothing to do with baseball (and it is so painfully obvious) and the contraction. DNA does not carry blame.

However, the Front Office that was working under Pohlad for the contraction is still around (Other than Bell who retired). So if you want to blame current Twins' personnel for that, look at St. Peter, Ryan and Co and not the Pohlads. They were not around, St. Peter, Ryan & Co were.

History will tell, but still not sure whether the contraction was not more of a boogeyman tactic for 2 uninterested fan-bases, which resulting in moving one team (Expos) and a new ballpark for the other (Twins.) Interestingly enough, similar rumors have been heard this millennium for the As and the Rays...


Without coming across as an apologist, the lengths you're taking this FO thing is really quite remarkable

#26 twinsnorth49

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:40 PM

I read an article recently where a Hennepin County official talked about how pleased they were with partnering with the Pohlads in building Target Field. He talked about how they took basically a useless piece of property, in what he called a boundary area and built beautiful Target Field. You do know the Twins attract more visitors to Downtown Minneapolis than all the other sports teams in town combined right?


So they replaced the useless land with a useless baseball team, at your expense and to their profit, and your......
Thankful? Happy? Confused?

#27 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:55 PM

That was in another Millennium.

Jim Pohlad is not alive. The Pohlad kids had/have nothing to do with baseball (and it is so painfully obvious) and the contraction. DNA does not carry blame.

However, the Front Office that was working under Pohlad for the contraction is still around (Other than Bell who retired). So if you want to blame current Twins' personnel for that, look at St. Peter, Ryan and Co and not the Pohlads. They were not around, St. Peter, Ryan & Co were.

History will tell, but still not sure whether the contraction was not more of a boogeyman tactic for 2 uninterested fan-bases, which resulting in moving one team (Expos) and a new ballpark for the other (Twins.) Interestingly enough, similar rumors have been heard this millennium for the As and the Rays...


I'm sure Ryan, Bell, & co were really pushing contraction because being unemployed is every competitive person's dream scenario.

And don't come back with the kickbacks argument. That is based on nothing more than malicious speculation with absolutely no evidence.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike and argue over this front office. I do not understand why you feel the need to fabricate elaborate conspiracies about an event ten years past.