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#1 Shane Wahl

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

Sort of an anti-climatic AFL season so far given the Buxton injury, but I thought this would be a good place to just jabber about day-to-day stuff happening there. Odd that more people aren't talking about it . . . .

Anyway:

Eddie Rosario and Alex Meyer are impressive. Max Kepler is doing ok in a league that is advanced for him. Trevor May is also ok. A.J. Achter is good. Zach Jones is struggling.

Also, NICK WITTGREN, that guy who is from Lafayette, IN, went to Purdue, and who I raved about and hyped his draft chances in earlier rounds . . . is just dominating. He has been completely dominant for two years and it is continuing in the AFL. 11 Ks in 5 1/3 innings. The Twins drafted L.J. Mazzilli instead . . .

#2 gunnarthor

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:25 PM

Sort of an anti-climatic AFL season so far given the Buxton injury, but I thought this would be a good place to just jabber about day-to-day stuff happening there. Odd that more people aren't talking about it . . . .

Anyway:

Eddie Rosario and Alex Meyer are impressive. Max Kepler is doing ok in a league that is advanced for him. Trevor May is also ok. A.J. Achter is good. Zach Jones is struggling.

Also, NICK WITTGREN, that guy who is from Lafayette, IN, went to Purdue, and who I raved about and hyped his draft chances in earlier rounds . . . is just dominating. He has been completely dominant for two years and it is continuing in the AFL. 11 Ks in 5 1/3 innings. The Twins drafted L.J. Mazzilli instead . . .


Yeah, we aren't talking about the AFL enough. Wittgren is a nice late pick on your part but I'm not going to kill the Twins for not taking a college reliever. For all I know, he could be the next Anthony Slama. After the first few rounds, the draft is pretty tough to predict.

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:20 AM

Buxton, Jones, and Kepler are all playing talent that sits higher than where they played this season. I think the expectations are a bit high if we were expecting them to dominate. This is more a learning situation for them. They now know what they have to be better at next year. I see that as a positive. If you remember, Buxton didn't exactly light the world on fire in rookie ball last year. Apparently, however, it inspired him to go back home and work harder that offseason... and look what happened. I suspect this will be a good thing long term (at least for Buxton).

#4 Chance

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 07:25 AM

Well, Buxton did homer yesterday. His second in the AFL. I think he will continue to heat up as he gets more familiar with the league.
Kepler accually seems to be keeping up for the most part which is encouraging.

#5 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:00 AM

....

Also, NICK WITTGREN, that guy who is from Lafayette, IN, went to Purdue, and who I raved about and hyped his draft chances in earlier rounds . . . is just dominating. He has been completely dominant for two years and it is continuing in the AFL. 11 Ks in 5 1/3 innings. The Twins drafted L.J. Mazzilli instead . . .


The Marlins picked this guy up on the 9th round?
Their scouts must just be way better than ours.
Sadly, Wittgren is not an isolated incident.

I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.


#6 Twins Twerp

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:25 AM

The Marlins picked this guy up on the 9th round?
Their scouts must just be way better than ours.
Sadly, Wittgren is not an isolated incident.


Marlins scouts are at least 8x better than ours. We passed on this guy 8-9 times. Oh wait, so did 29 other teams.

#7 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:12 AM

Marlins scouts are at least 8x better than ours. We passed on this guy 8-9 times. Oh wait, so did 29 other teams.


Yeah this. The average draft is going to get you what, 40-60 major leaguers? It would be awesome if the Twins managed to get 10-20 of them with their draft but that's just unrealistic. From about the 3rd round down, just about everyone picked is a complete crap shoot. It would have been great to get Wittgren, but every team is saying that right now. They all passed him up.

#8 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

Yeah this. The average draft is going to get you what, 40-60 major leaguers? It would be awesome if the Twins managed to get 10-20 of them with their draft but that's just unrealistic. From about the 3rd round down, just about everyone picked is a complete crap shoot. It would have been great to get Wittgren, but every team is saying that right now. They all passed him up.


No argument there, but the Marlins and Rays seem to wind up with excellent prospects without going through the string of bad luck years like most other MLB teams.

They are doing something better than the other teams. Year after year is not a coincidence. They are seeing something different. Teams should be trying to figure out what it is that they are doing different.

That was the point of, 'Wittgren is not an isolated incident.'

I refuse to believe that people in Florida are just smarter than everyone else.

I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.


#9 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

Keep in mind that I was jabbering about Wittgren for months before that 2012 draft, so that's why I brought him up in the first place. This wasn't just some guy it was one guy who I thought was going to be fantastic and even picked in round 4!

#10 Jim H

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:34 AM

Wasn't Achter a 10th or 11th round choice? The Marlins and Rays must be really slipping to let him fall that low.

#11 roger

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:50 AM

Achter as actually the 46th round pick in 2010.

#12 Shane Wahl

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

I want nothing more than to just end this thread now.

#13 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 01:28 PM

I want nothing more than to just end this thread now.


Well, you're going to get that response quite often when you bash a team for not picking a guy that 29 other teams also passed over several times. We've all had our pet picks that went to another team and saw success. It's part of the game.

Had you phrased it "I wish the Twins had picked this guy, he's flat-out dominating" instead of taking an opportunity to slam the team in the process, it's probable that the response would have been vastly different.

#14 Shane Wahl

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:47 PM

Well, you're going to get that response quite often when you bash a team for not picking a guy that 29 other teams also passed over several times. We've all had our pet picks that went to another team and saw success. It's part of the game.

Had you phrased it "I wish the Twins had picked this guy, he's flat-out dominating" instead of taking an opportunity to slam the team in the process, it's probable that the response would have been vastly different.


Are you being serious here? I mention Wittgren and say "the Twins drafted L.J. Mazzilli instead . . . "

That is "bashing" the Twins?

What is going on around here?

#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:50 PM

The exuberant defenders of all-things-Twins are pretty sensitive, seeing "bashing" and "slamming" when it isn't there. It's no wonder there are complaints about one-sidedness in infraction giving.

#16 Twins Twerp

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

The exuberant defenders of all-things-Twins are pretty sensitive, seeing "bashing" and "slamming" when it isn't there. It's no wonder there are complaints about one-sidedness in infraction giving.


Defensive much??

#17 big dog

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

What can you tell us about Mazzilli? I remember them drafting him but I don't remember any details. Or we can forget this because it isn't related to the AFL, either way.

I would like to see Buxton get back on the field ASAP.

#18 Shane Wahl

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

What can you tell us about Mazzilli? I remember them drafting him but I don't remember any details. Or we can forget this because it isn't related to the AFL, either way.

I would like to see Buxton get back on the field ASAP.


He didn't sign with the Twins and was not likely too do so. I believe he was drafted in the 4th round this year.

Buxton is back. In his first plate appearance back, he smacked a homer.

#19 big dog

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:59 PM

Thanks, I had quit checking MiLB.com so I missed the Buxton HR. Very glad to hear it.

#20 snepp

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:00 PM

[quote name='Shane Wahl']The exuberant defenders of all-things-Twins are pretty sensitive, seeing "bashing" and "slamming" when it isn't there. It's no wonder there are complaints about one-sidedness in infraction giving.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of infractions. :P

http://twinsdaily.co...html#post164885

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And...

[quote name='Twins Twerp']Defensive much??[/QUOTE]

Not helping, at all, brush up on the trolling section of that link. :)


Back to the AFL discussion in this thread, thanks.

#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

Are you being serious here? I mention Wittgren and say "the Twins drafted L.J. Mazzilli instead . . . "

That is "bashing" the Twins?

What is going on around here?


Wittgren went in the ninth round. Why bring up LJ Mazzilli at all? The Twins drafted ten guys before Wittgren went to the Marlins.

Whether you intended it or not, how people read your posts are going to dictate their reactions to your post. My comment was not meant as any disciplinary action nor was it saying that you violated any sort of comment policy; the point of my comment was "if you don't like how a half dozen people responded to your thread, you may want to consider that it might have something to do with how you phrased your statement in the first place". After all, the comment elicited virtually the same response from multiple people. At that point, it probably ain't them, it's probably your post.

#22 goulik

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:30 PM

Thank you Snepp.

Overall AFL impressions, which Twins Prospect(s) if any are really shining, who is really disappointing? (Besides all the minor injury concerns)

#23 Shane Wahl

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:30 PM

It is not clear why I would go and start an AFL thread, mention how the guys are playing and then be said to be "lashing out" and "bashing" the Twins. I apologize for mentioning the guy who the Twins picked several selections before Wittgren.

Anyway, goulik, Meyer and Achter are doing very well. Zach Jones and Trevor May are having some troubles, and all of the hitters are a little in over their heads (no one with a .700 OPS or better right now).

#24 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:51 AM

Meyer seems to be doing well down in the AFL, May, not so much. With the small sample size of the AFL, even after a full season, what are you most looking for in the stat lines? For me, it's what the youngsters are doing. Guys like Buxton and Kepler, they're clearly in advanced territory here, so to see them do well is exciting for me. What about you gus?

#25 Jim Crikket

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:21 AM

I haven't paid as much attention the past few games, but if, as Shane points out, Buxton, Rosario and Kepler are all at or below .700 OPS, it's hard to say they're really doing well. Buxton and Kepler are both playing above their Class A levels, so just being able to keep from being overmatched is encouraging for them. I hoped for a bit more from Rosario.

Do I recall correctly that the AFL is traditionally known as a hitters' league, with the hitters assigned generally being higher level prospects than the pitchers? If so, then I might have hoped to see the hitters put up a little better numbers. Achter and Meyer, though, are very encouraging.
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#26 Wookiee of the Year

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

...I might have hoped to see the hitters put up a little better numbers. Achter and Meyer, though, are very encouraging.

Yeah--I'm mostly just encouraged to see Meyer doing so well. We had full, impressive minor league seasons from Buxton and Rosario, so I'm not terribly worried about their AFL performances. It'd be nice to see Kepler do something, but as previously pointed out, he'd be expected to be over his head in the AFL.

My biggest question I was hoping the AFL could answer is how Meyer is looking, and if he's bouncing back from his shoulder injury. The positive results we're seeing there are far more encouraging to me than the subpar performancese of the hitters are disheartening.

#27 mike wants wins

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

Meyer is number 1 on my AFL interest. Long term, not worried about Rosario or Buxton. The others, if they do great, it's a bonus to me. Well, it would be nice if May showed growth.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#28 gunnarthor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

No argument there, but the Marlins and Rays seem to wind up with excellent prospects without going through the string of bad luck years like most other MLB teams.

They are doing something better than the other teams. Year after year is not a coincidence. They are seeing something different. Teams should be trying to figure out what it is that they are doing different.


They really aren't. Neither team has a great farm system right now - I believe both are middle of the road. From 2008 on, the Rays have had 2 players drafted make the majors, they combined for 57 games and 0.1 WAR. They did have some better drafts before then, although they constantly picked in the top 10, they didn't get great results either - Townsend, Young, Brazelton, Niemann and Hamilton were all first round picks that didn't do much, although Hamilton got pretty good after leaving and they made a good trade in Young. Niemann and Baldelli got hurt. Bad luck there. This years Rays' team only had 8 players play a game for them that were drafted by the org. (They made some smart trades).

Marlins made some better recent picks - Fernandez and Yelich in the first rounds, Stanton in the 2nd but they've had a lot of bad drafts - usually picking in that ugly 11-20 area. From 02-12 drafts (ie, not the Mauer draft), the players drafted by the Marlins have accumulated 75.7 WAR, players drafted by the Twins have accumulated 101.5 WAR. (Interesting comparison, the Rays in the same time amassed 174 WAR but the 06 and 07 drafts are nearly the entire difference - 76.8 WAR from those two drafts, which netted Longoria, Jennings, Cobb, Moore and Price).

Edited by gunnarthor, 28 October 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:00 AM

They really aren't. Neither team has a great farm system right now - I believe both are middle of the road. From 2008 on, the Rays have had 2 players drafted make the majors, they combined for 57 games and 0.1 WAR. They did have some better drafts before then, although they constantly picked in the top 10, they didn't get great results either - Townsend, Young, Brazelton, Niemann and Hamilton were all first round picks that didn't do much, although Hamilton got pretty good after leaving and they made a good trade in Young. Niemann and Baldelli got hurt. Bad luck there. This years Rays' team only had 8 players play a game for them that were drafted by the org. (They made some smart trades).


I've been harping on this for a long time. I think the Rays are an extremely well-run franchise but before we crown them Kings of All Things Baseball, they need to draft lower in the pecking order and continue to succeed.

The Twins turned into a good team in the early 2000s and continued to draft well for 3-4 years after that point. I haven't seen the Rays do that yet, though they've absolutely been killing it with trades.

#30 mike wants wins

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:25 AM

The Rays are also good because they shift and platoon and do other things well. Success is driven by end to end processes working in unison.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)