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Article: Minnesota Twins Top 50 Prospects: 36-40

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:37 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...Prospects-36-40

#2 righty8383

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:01 PM

In my unprofessional opinion, Melotakis is the most likely on this list to reach the show. I say this under the assumption that he will ultimately be in the bullpen. I still think Wimmers could be solid. Nice job so far Seth!

#3 Seth Stohs

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

Just 35 more to go! :)

I agree that Melotakis will be a very good bullpen arm, but I completely agree with seeing if the starting can work (because I believe starters are worth more than relievers (many more innings).

#4 clutterheart

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:17 PM

Navarreto over Turner? I wouldn't have done that but I guess you think their is more potential in Navarreto?

This is a lot of fun, thanks for doing this!

#5 Trevor0333

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:25 PM

Hey Seth, love all the work you put into this, great reads! Small request as I find myself jumping back & forth from this page to the players last season stats. Any way they could be tossed in at the end of the summary for each player?

Also with the pitchers, does anyone know a good site where you can find a pitchers pitch repetoire? Like he has a 2 seamer, curve, changeup & slider. etc...

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:56 PM

Navaretto and Atherton confuse me completely. Like . . . .completely.

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:18 AM

Navarreto over Turner? I wouldn't have done that but I guess you think their is more potential in Navarreto?

This is a lot of fun, thanks for doing this!


This is fun! Thanks!

I think that Navarreto's upside is much higher than Turner's. Size, power. Much more offensive upside. Turner's three years older and is tremendous defensively but many question his offensive game. I would say Turner is much more likely to get to the big leagues, but "a little better offensively than Drew Butera" isn't terribly exciting. Naverreto has a long way to go, but for me, prospect lists are about potential, or at least that's a big part of it.

#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:19 AM

Hey Seth, love all the work you put into this, great reads! Small request as I find myself jumping back & forth from this page to the players last season stats. Any way they could be tossed in at the end of the summary for each player?

Also with the pitchers, does anyone know a good site where you can find a pitchers pitch repetoire? Like he has a 2 seamer, curve, changeup & slider. etc...


Good suggestions. I could provide links to their Baseball-Reference.com page or their milb.com page, if people would like.

As for a place to find pitcher's repertoires, I would suggest ordering the 2014 Minnesota Twins Prospect Handbook where I'll be sure to include that for everyone, with velocities and much more.

#9 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:20 AM

Navaretto and Atherton confuse me completely. Like . . . .completely.


How so? You think they should be higher? Lower?

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:44 AM

Wimmers is an interesting case. Hate to say that, but he does not belong in a prospect list anymore and I suspect that if he were a 10th round vs a 1st round draft pick he would not be in this list. Think of this:

He is the same age as Liam Hendriks, has pretty much the same stuff (with less velocity), but (unlike Hendriks) he never got to pitch more than 41 innings in any professional level or have any substantial success. This does not a top 50 prospect make, given that he does not have a lights out pitch (like a 98 mph FB or a killer slider or change that can potentially be harvested in the future.) I did like his two seamer when I saw him at ST in 2012, but it is an 88-90 mph pitch.

Make or break year for him and he really needs to be lights out in New Britain this season to make it.

#11 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:27 AM

I disagree with thrylos, he certainly belongs on prospect lists because he stil has upside, and isn't in the majors......

Not a fan of picking and rewarding players that act like Navarreto, but he was a kid and racial stuff can escalate. I hope he's on a short leash.

Of this list, Melotakis is the most likely, imo, to make the majors. I think it will be as a reliever, but letting him start this year is not a bad idea. But I hope they make a decision faster than they have with some others. At some point, the guy can be a MLB reliever and be set for life financially, or he can spend years more in the minors. I don't know what will happen here, but I hope they decide this year, not 2 years from now.

#12 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:39 AM

Thrylos, I can't really disagree with you much. Certainly, he would not be on the list if he were a 10th rounder instead of a first rounder. However, he was a first-rounder, and rightfully so, just three years ago. Injuries are part of the game, and because of his injuries and struggles, he is not going to be debuting at age 23 like so many hope. In fact, he may not debut until he's 27 (if at all). However, if he comes back in 2014 at 100% and gets a full year under his belt, works 140 or so innings and and produces, it will be as a starting pitcher. Let's say he debuts at 27 and is an average big league starter (#3/4 type), for six pre-free agency years, that takes him to 33. Six years of a starter is pretty valuable. Now, I'm obviously countering that by placing him at 40 with what happened his first full season when he was healthy and the uncertainty of any TJ or surgery comeback. That's some of my thinking.

#13 mnfanforlife

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:45 AM

Why not bring up Melotakis quickly (once he is ready) to the minnesota bullpen? Then after a year or two...move him to starting pitcher (like the path of rule 5 pick Johan Santana)

#14 ericchri

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:01 AM

This season had to be a pretty big increase in innings over anything Melotakis has ever done before, right? I'd be curious if he wasn't somewhat "pacing himself" knowing that was going to be the case, and that next year you might see a little bump from him as he's better conditioned for the workload. I'd definitely give him another season as a starter to see what happens.

#15 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:23 AM

My thought is that starters are much more valuable, so if you can develop them, go for it. A reminder that most good relievers were not relievers in the minor leagues. They were starters.

Consider, most relievers aren't closers. Set up guys may go one inning, but they also could go 2, even 3. So, it certainly doesn't hurt to have them 1.) work on pitches, and 2.) stretch out to be able to fill a long-relief type of role if needed when they are called up.

#16 DJL44

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:37 AM

Why not bring up Melotakis quickly (once he is ready) to the minnesota bullpen? Then after a year or two...move him to starting pitcher (like the path of rule 5 pick Johan Santana)


Santana was only in the bullpen because they had to keep him on the 25 man roster. Until Melotakis has to go on the 40 man roster they should keep trying him as a starting pitcher. There is really no downside - he gets to see more batters and work more on his secondary pitches as a starter. Minor league relievers don't get much more than 60 innings a year. My guess is they'll make the decision when he reaches AA.

#17 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:39 AM

Sure there is downside. If he's not going to be a SP, he delays his income by a lot staying in the minors as a bad starter* rather than moving up as a good reliever.

*I'm not syaing he is bad, I'm saying there is certainly downside risk to staying a starter.
Lighten up Francis....

#18 DJL44

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:02 AM

Melotakis hasn't been a bad starter. He's moving up the ladder as a starting pitcher and I assume that will continue until he isn't performing well. If he gets to AA and they decide to convert him back to relief he'll move quickly. Getting him innings speeds his development, it doesn't slow it down.

#19 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:28 AM

If Melotakis can only manage 6.8 K/9 in Low A ball, I don't know that I care to see much more of him as a starter. I had high, likely too high, hopes for him, Duffy and the rest of that 2012 pitching class. I thought the Twins might be on to something converting these hard-throwing relievers with littler wear and tear into starters but it doesn't look to be working.

Either these guys lost more velocity than expected or the Twins have tinkered too much, either way, if the ceiling is #5-6 starter, might as well stick them back in the pen because that's where back-end starters end up most of the time anyway.

I agree with the Navarreto over Stewart. I know it's not cool or old-school to say so, but offense trumps defense, always, and it's not like Navarreto looks bad behind the plate.

#20 Shane Wahl

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

I have the great fear that all catchers below Pinto are going to disappoint.

#21 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:43 AM

I have the great fear that all catchers below Pinto are going to disappoint.


I don't but mostly because I never expect too much from a catcher.

#22 Rosterman

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:03 PM

Wimmers will get every chance to shine in 2014 in the minors. The question is, do the Twins put him on the 40-man roster. He would have to start at Ft. Myers this year (partly because he will still be in the best training center area.) You can debate if he will go as high as New Brit. But he has to try and make it as a starter. As Seth says, he can 40-man for 3-4 years, if the Twins feel they have the space for him. He just needs to face batters now.

#23 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:50 PM

Wimmers is an interesting case. Hate to say that, but he does not belong in a prospect list anymore and I suspect that if he were a 10th round vs a 1st round draft pick he would not be in this list. Think of this:

He is the same age as Liam Hendriks, has pretty much the same stuff (with less velocity), but (unlike Hendriks) he never got to pitch more than 41 innings in any professional level or have any substantial success. This does not a top 50 prospect make, given that he does not have a lights out pitch (like a 98 mph FB or a killer slider or change that can potentially be harvested in the future.) I did like his two seamer when I saw him at ST in 2012, but it is an 88-90 mph pitch.

Make or break year for him and he really needs to be lights out in New Britain this season to make it.


Mid-rotation potential always belongs in a top 50.

#24 Kwak

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:35 PM

My question: what type of rotation are the Twins trying to build? The names mentioned in this list as pitchers sound like they are simply less experienced versions of the pitchers that are/have been in the rotation the past few years. Continuing to develop this type as a starter inevitably leads to adding the most successful as "tryouts" to the rotation. The answer is already in--these aren't the guys! The bar for the rotation must be set higher in order to actually develop the rotation required to win consistently. Melotakis, (I thought) had the most success of the named bunch this past season, projects (to me) as a Craig Breslow--who is actually a darn useful pitcher! Another thread is neded for Breslow--so back to Melotakis, develop him for what he really is/can be. A very useful pitcher can be had, and not in an interminable period. Geese should not be confused with swans despite how much you truly want swans.

#25 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:12 PM

My question: what type of rotation are the Twins trying to build? The names mentioned in this list as pitchers sound like they are simply less experienced versions of the pitchers that are/have been in the rotation the past few years. Continuing to develop this type as a starter inevitably leads to adding the most successful as "tryouts" to the rotation. The answer is already in--these aren't the guys! The bar for the rotation must be set higher in order to actually develop the rotation required to win consistently. Melotakis, (I thought) had the most success of the named bunch this past season, projects (to me) as a Craig Breslow--who is actually a darn useful pitcher! Another thread is neded for Breslow--so back to Melotakis, develop him for what he really is/can be. A very useful pitcher can be had, and not in an interminable period. Geese should not be confused with swans despite how much you truly want swans.


Please note that so far we have been looking at #s 36-50. These are "good" prospects, but they're not top prospects. Good prospects can get to the big leagues and contribute as bullpen arms, bench bats/utility players, 5th/6th/7th starters, 4/5th Outfielders, and once in awhile be more.

I don't know what you're hoping for. There are only about 15 true aces in all of baseball. There are maybe 30 #2s, an then pretty much everyone else fits into the 3-5 category. Those guys throw the types of velocities that these guys throw. They throw the types of pitches these guys throw. And many of them become successful in the big leagues.

There is no one way to build a rotation. There is no "perfect" pitching prospect (Mark Prior was one, right? Strasburg? Cole? Etc.) With so few obvious top pitching prospects, having a few of them is good, and the rest are guys you're hoping with based on one or two pitches, good control, etc.

As for Melotakis, and Wimmers, and Duffey, it would be silly to give up on them, just like Summers from a previous list. They could continue to progress, find something that clicks. Get used to working a full season and what that means they need to do. Who knows?

#26 Jim Crikket

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

Melotakis spent better than half the 2013 season experimenting with different grips for his breaking ball and really didn't come up with an effective one until almost the point where he was pulled from the rotation and moved to the bullpen due to his innings. He's got plenty of velocity on the fastball to fall back on, whether as a starter or bullpen arm, but if he had worked strictly from the pen in 2013, would he have gotten enough innings to finally find that breaking ball? Or would he still have been looking for it next year?

I think it's much too soon to know with certainty what his eventual role will be, but I agree with Seth, until you know a lot more than what you know now, you let him get starting pitcher innings and as much work on those secondary pitches as possible.
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#27 Twins Daily Admin

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

I don't want to make too much of the stats, and I know a lot of these guys are working on other things and have a little time, but I gotta say - the K rates from some of these guys that I had higher expectations for, are again making me wonder about how the Twins scout pitchers.

#28 stringer bell

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

I had Mason Melotakis as my Adopt-a-Prospect in 2013 and I got to meet him in Cedar Rapids when I made a trip there in June. He seems like a nice young man and seemed legitimately surprised and flattered when I told him he was my Adopt-a-Prospect. He seems to have the skill set to advance quickly and he did a good job last season overall. I would expect that he'll advance quickly when his role (starter or reliever) is determined.

#29 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:41 AM

I don't want to make too much of the stats, and I know a lot of these guys are working on other things and have a little time, but I gotta say - the K rates from some of these guys that I had higher expectations for, are again making me wonder about how the Twins scout pitchers.


Scout or instruct. Something just doesn't add up. Other clubs just don't seem to have as much trouble getting minor leaguers with above average K rates.

#30 TRex

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

As with everything else pitching-related, I blame it on 'Pitch to Contact';)!