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#121 glunn

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:04 AM

No they don't have something resembling TD though the local newspaper has a mostly unmoderated fan forum.

The Cardinals rebuilt their minor league system while maintaining a quality product on the field after the 2006 WS win. After 2006, the Cardinals had to rebuild their farm system since it had been ranked among the lowest in baseball. The Twins couldn't quite do this.

Now the Cards have 8 or 9 mostly young pitchers who could start so some pitchers have to be in the bullpen. Reasonable contracts to their catcher and ace Wainwright. Holliday has produced after signing a 7 year contract. Signed a PED user at SS to solve that problem.

Next year, the glut in SP may cause the Cards to have to trade someone. But, there are always injuries. Several of the young pitchers are cost-controlled.


Can you shed any light on how the Cardinals have been able to build such a strong group of young pitchers?

#122 thetank

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:25 AM

Can you shed any light on how the Cardinals have been able to build such a strong group of young pitchers?

First the Cards were lucky to have their ace, Wainwright, come back from surgery. Second they did a great job identifying young pitchers for the draft. Then of course developing them in the minor leagues. Getting Michael Wacha out of college as compensation for Pujols justified not paying $200 million for an aging veteran.

The Cards have a great catcher who is one of the best all around at his position. His catchers ERA is a point lower when he is catching. Looking at the starting pitching of the Twins one can see why they are bad. Minnesota has a larger population than St. Louis so they should generate more revenue. I could see the Twins losing 90 a few more seasons if the new pitchers flop.

#123 eLee612

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:57 PM

It's hard to remember a time in my history when I wasn't a Twins fan. It started somewhere in the early 90s, eating Kemp's Old Fashioned Maple Nut (not to be confused with Butter Pecan) ice cream with my grandparents. While my grandpa certainly had his passionate opinions on how the Twins were playing (and the FO was operating), I was always impressed with the way my grandma could hold her own. She knew the player stats, where they came from, and had eerily accurate predictions about where they were going. I simply would lie on the floor in silence, patiently waiting for the play, the perfect degree of melt on my Maple Nut, and my grandpa's still-impressive vertical jump when the slide was safe at home.

Fast forward a few years later and I'm fairly sure I was in love with Mr. Jacque Dewayne Jones. A product of Minneapolis Park & Rec softball, I frequently made the pre-game loop around the track at the Metrodome. We would always sit in left, and due to proximity he easily entered my top 5 players list. Plus, when a "real baseball player!!" throws you a ball and you're 10 with a pony-tail and a team jersey that goes down to your knees, your heart is easily won.

If I were still operating under the same standards, I would be infatuated with Scott Ullger, as the last three balls I've gotten have come from him. (Section 3 FTW!) Ullger is great, but in reality I'm a huge fan of Pedro Florimon. No doubt, he has some room to improve at bat, but fielding… he's like a real life Henry Skrimshander (***minus the big choke, no jinxing things!***).

Outside of (and within) the Twins, I closely follow two things: Dominican ball, and injuries. And actually, that amounts to a fairly representative pie chart of my 'real life' - baseball, latin america, and sports medicine. The Twins have also been huge for me on a personal level, as I've worked through injury (or something like that…) and 5 surgeries in the last 5 years; I've watched a lot of baseball Ü

I'm not sure if I'll post much or just watch the game and eat my maple nut in silence, with the occasional chuckle or snake eye thrown towards the screen. But I will be at the Meltdown… bold move for a rookie, I know… so perhaps I will see some of you there!

Edited by eLee612, 13 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

Nadie dijo que la vida sería fácil, sólo dijeron que valdría la pena.

#124 USNMCPO

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:17 PM

I too have great memories of Twins baseball. My first game was with my Dad at the old Met watching the Twins in a Sunday double header against the "California" Angels. Harmon Killebrew hit a home run to left that I almost snagged. The second game went in to extra innings (19 I think) so we couldn't stay for the end. My Mom and I had to catch a train back up North. Twins baseball gets into your blood and is a lifetime of joys and heartbreaks.

#125 biggentleben

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:34 PM

No they don't have something resembling TD though the local newspaper has a mostly unmoderated fan forum.

The Cardinals rebuilt their minor league system while maintaining a quality product on the field after the 2006 WS win. After 2006, the Cardinals had to rebuild their farm system since it had been ranked among the lowest in baseball. The Twins couldn't quite do this.

Now the Cards have 8 or 9 mostly young pitchers who could start so some pitchers have to be in the bullpen. Reasonable contracts to their catcher and ace Wainwright. Holliday has produced after signing a 7 year contract. Signed a PED user at SS to solve that problem.

Next year, the glut in SP may cause the Cards to have to trade someone. But, there are always injuries. Several of the young pitchers are cost-controlled.


There is a really active and fun Cardinals community on huzzah.co, a forum started similarly to how the old BYTO started with exiles from the ESPN boards for the Braves, Dodgers, and Cardinals all creating one board together. I think you'd enjoy the back and forth there, and let me know if you're looking for a few good folks to bring you in the fold over there.
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#126 biggentleben

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

Just another Twins fan from South Dakota. I have been lurking for at least two years. I have learned so much about how a baseball team is put together from this site. So I wanted to thank all the writers and insightful posters. Hopefully I will have some intelligent insight soon. THANKS AGAIN.


I think every Twins fan in South Dakota has now posted. Surprised how many fellow SoDakians are around here.
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#127 JB_Iowa

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:36 PM

I think every Twins fan in South Dakota has now posted. Surprised how many fellow SoDakians are around here.


Geographically I'm closer to many of the SoDak posters than to most of my fellow Iowans. Watched a lot of Twins games on Sx Falls stations while growing up. (Have some recollection that they were mostly on channel 13 but I'm not sure that's right).

#128 biggentleben

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

Geographically I'm closer to many of the SoDak posters than to most of my fellow Iowans. Watched a lot of Twins games on Sx Falls stations while growing up. (Have some recollection that they were mostly on channel 13 but I'm not sure that's right).


I'm mid South Dakota, so basically the middle of nowhere as far as TV goes. In fact, with the change to digital signals, I only get NBC at my place now. The CBS, ABC, and Fox signals all fall short of hitting me.
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#129 oldguy10

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:29 PM

elee612, wonderful post you gave us here. As you point out clearly it is really all about love for the game and the romance of it on the field.

#130 glunn

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:51 PM

It's hard to remember a time in my history when I wasn't a Twins fan. It started somewhere in the early 90s, eating Kemp's Old Fashioned Maple Nut (not to be confused with Butter Pecan) ice cream with my grandparents. While my grandpa certainly had his passionate opinions on how the Twins were playing (and the FO was operating), I was always impressed with the way my grandma could hold her own. She knew the player stats, where they came from, and had eerily accurate predictions about where they were going. I simply would lie on the floor in silence, patiently waiting for the play, the perfect degree of melt on my Maple Nut, and my grandpa's still-impressive vertical jump when the slide was safe at home.

Fast forward a few years later and I'm fairly sure I was in love with Mr. Jacque Dewayne Jones. A product of Minneapolis Park & Rec softball, I frequently made the pre-game loop around the track at the Metrodome. We would always sit in left, and due to proximity he easily entered my top 5 players list. Plus, when a "real baseball player!!" throws you a ball and you're 10 with a pony-tail and a team jersey that goes down to your knees, your heart is easily won.

If I were still operating under the same standards, I would be infatuated with Scott Ullger, as the last three balls I've gotten have come from him. (Section 3 FTW!) Ullger is great, but in reality I'm a huge fan of Pedro Florimon. No doubt, he has some room to improve at bat, but fielding… he's like a real life Henry Skrimshander (***minus the big choke, no jinxing things!***).

Outside of (and within) the Twins, I closely follow two things: Dominican ball, and injuries. And actually, that amounts to a fairly representative pie chart of my 'real life' - baseball, latin america, and sports medicine. The Twins have also been huge for me on a personal level, as I've worked through injury (or something like that…) and 5 surgeries in the last 5 years; I've watched a lot of baseball Ü

I'm not sure if I'll post much or just watch the game and eat my maple nut in silence, with the occasional chuckle or snake eye thrown towards the screen. But I will be at the Meltdown… bold move for a rookie, I know… so perhaps I will see some of you there!


Great post Rookie. I hope to see more of you, especially in the game threads when next season starts -- we will be serving free virtual ice cream.

#131 glunn

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:53 PM

I too have great memories of Twins baseball. My first game was with my Dad at the old Met watching the Twins in a Sunday double header against the "California" Angels. Harmon Killebrew hit a home run to left that I almost snagged. The second game went in to extra innings (19 I think) so we couldn't stay for the end. My Mom and I had to catch a train back up North. Twins baseball gets into your blood and is a lifetime of joys and heartbreaks.


Excellent post, Rookie -- I hope that you keep posting.

#132 MNfan34

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

I've been a Twins fan since 1986. I was age 5 and 9 for the two championships, and while they left an impression, I would say I'm a product of the Kirby era. I felt like every time he came to the plate something was going to happen. I'm sure now I would a more cynical me might get frustrated with the strikeouts, but if there ever was a case for a player being "clutch" it was that man. Throughout the 90's, I listened to every minute of Twins baseball I could on 1240am in Saint Cloud. That signal was not always the clearest (screech!) Herb Carneal was awesome obviously. "Touch em all."

So when people say watching baseball is boring, I tend to disagree. I really came to appreciate the deeper complexity and strategy of the game once I was able to watch the Twins regularly. It's a beautiful sport, and at the MLB level, I feel like the talent required for success is simply amazing.

I could never get aboard the Mauer contract whining bandwagon, his offensive polish is unrivaled as far as I am concerned. It's not my money, and far from the worst money spent by the club. I am still very happy he is a Twin for now and for years to come.

Offseason is great too, especially now that the Twins do things other than just losing established players . . . that's what I grew up with. We lost everyone eventually except basically Puckett and Hrbek.

I will be happy to see the Twins return to respectable ball in the coming years. It's hard not to enjoy a good pennant race. Titles are great, but I will have no complaints with another run like we had in the previous decade. Two seasons with game 163? One game playoff. Awesome. Just get to the postseason, anything can happen.

I used to post on the ESPN boards under the same account name.

What do I still want with this offseason? One more starter. I want Garza, and the money doesn't bother me given the current roster configuration. None of the up and coming studs will really need to get that money before his contract would be over. Sano and Buxton aren't going to be FA before 2019. I'm fine with Pelfrey, so long as the put an incentive in his contract that he needs to deliver the ball in under 30 seconds.

Offensively, we need to acquire a table setter. One option: sign another starter and offer the Yankees a Worley, Deduno, or Correa (or 2 of those 3) for Gardner. I think they would be intrigued by Deduno for Gardner.

Anyway, I've been watching this site for offseason updates. Seems like an impressive core of knowledgeable people.

#133 biggentleben

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:47 PM

Offensively, we need to acquire a table setter. One option: sign another starter and offer the Yankees a Worley, Deduno, or Correa (or 2 of those 3) for Gardner. I think they would be intrigued by Deduno for Gardner.


I think you will be blown away the level of pitcher they expect to get from Gardner. They asked the Braves for Teheran, per reports from Braves beat guys. That's about as untouchable in Atlanta as they come, basically like saying we'd like Sano AND Buxton for Gardner.

Great first post, btw, and welcome!
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#134 glunn

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:08 PM

I've been a Twins fan since 1986. I was age 5 and 9 for the two championships, and while they left an impression, I would say I'm a product of the Kirby era. I felt like every time he came to the plate something was going to happen. I'm sure now I would a more cynical me might get frustrated with the strikeouts, but if there ever was a case for a player being "clutch" it was that man. Throughout the 90's, I listened to every minute of Twins baseball I could on 1240am in Saint Cloud. That signal was not always the clearest (screech!) Herb Carneal was awesome obviously. "Touch em all."

So when people say watching baseball is boring, I tend to disagree. I really came to appreciate the deeper complexity and strategy of the game once I was able to watch the Twins regularly. It's a beautiful sport, and at the MLB level, I feel like the talent required for success is simply amazing.

I could never get aboard the Mauer contract whining bandwagon, his offensive polish is unrivaled as far as I am concerned. It's not my money, and far from the worst money spent by the club. I am still very happy he is a Twin for now and for years to come.

Offseason is great too, especially now that the Twins do things other than just losing established players . . . that's what I grew up with. We lost everyone eventually except basically Puckett and Hrbek.

I will be happy to see the Twins return to respectable ball in the coming years. It's hard not to enjoy a good pennant race. Titles are great, but I will have no complaints with another run like we had in the previous decade. Two seasons with game 163? One game playoff. Awesome. Just get to the postseason, anything can happen.

I used to post on the ESPN boards under the same account name.

What do I still want with this offseason? One more starter. I want Garza, and the money doesn't bother me given the current roster configuration. None of the up and coming studs will really need to get that money before his contract would be over. Sano and Buxton aren't going to be FA before 2019. I'm fine with Pelfrey, so long as the put an incentive in his contract that he needs to deliver the ball in under 30 seconds.

Offensively, we need to acquire a table setter. One option: sign another starter and offer the Yankees a Worley, Deduno, or Correa (or 2 of those 3) for Gardner. I think they would be intrigued by Deduno for Gardner.

Anyway, I've been watching this site for offseason updates. Seems like an impressive core of knowledgeable people.


Welcome, Rookie. A very good first post.

#135 MNfan34

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 06:26 AM

I think you will be blown away the level of pitcher they expect to get from Gardner. They asked the Braves for Teheran, per reports from Braves beat guys. That's about as untouchable in Atlanta as they come, basically like saying we'd like Sano AND Buxton for Gardner.


You are right. They view him as better than Span a year ago for sure (and he probably is). We would have been pretty disappointed in getting Worley and Deduno for Span. Still, he's 30 year old who's biggest strength is speed so he's not that valuable to me.

#136 rubbernecker

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:58 AM

Love the Twins. Love the site. "Rubbernecker" get it? I like to watch all the car crash threads. :) I really would have loved to have seen Lincecum as a Twin, but I guess he can be my National League crush. I like the moves so far...

#137 JB_Iowa

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:38 AM

Love the Twins. Love the site. "Rubbernecker" get it? I like to watch all the car crash threads. :) I really would have loved to have seen Lincecum as a Twin, but I guess he can be my National League crush. I like the moves so far...


Welcome to the forum. It's okay to be a rubbernecker ... that's usually what I'm doing on the car crash threads. Most of the time I get so lost in them that all I can do is gawk.

And I'm definitely a rubbernecker on Twitter ... although I usually call myself a "Twitter Voyeur". Never have sent a single tweet. So I applaud your willingness to post here and hope that now that you've "broken the ice", you'll add your comments on some other threads as well.

#138 glunn

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:11 AM

Love the Twins. Love the site. "Rubbernecker" get it? I like to watch all the car crash threads. :) I really would have loved to have seen Lincecum as a Twin, but I guess he can be my National League crush. I like the moves so far...


Welcome, Rookie. Please feel free to post more.

#139 maars

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

Minneapolis native and long-time lurker on these forums here. I've been thinking about the Pelfrey signing a bit, and the most sense that I can make out of it is that the front office is going to trade Correia at some point this season. Tommy John aside, Pelfrey has been good for more innings per season than Correia and has a similar career ERA, FIP, xFIP and SIERA. With that in mind, the Pelfrey signing is essentially a one year extension for Correia and a trip back four years in a time machine, plus whatever today's version of Correia can net us in a trade. At least that's what I'm hoping. The two are too similar for the Twins to carry both of them on their roster for too long, especially with the likes of Alex Meyer and Trevor May starting the year at AAA.

On a similar note, given the fact that Logan Darnell, Pat Dean, and AJ Achter seem to have earned a chance at the AAA level, I wonder if the Twins aren't at least trying to see what the market is for Samuel Deduno and Andrew Albers. That would leave Diamond, Worley and Gibson to fight it out for the final spot in the starting rotation. Even after the horror show they all produced last season, I'm betting that one or two of them can put it back together well enough to produce around a 4.40 ERA out of that fifth spot.

Even packaging Correia, Deduno and Albers together wouldn't likely net the Twins a prospect that would crack the organization's top 20, but between them I would expect the Twins to be able to net two or three C/C+ prospects. Not too impressive, but being able to add another of the likes of Daniel Santana, Miguel Sulbaran, or Niko Goodrum would be good return for any of these players as the Twins continue their rebuilding process.

#140 thetank

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:03 AM

I have to re-iterate that this is a well-moderated forum. Thanks for the service.