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Sickels: Top 20 Twins prospects for 2014

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#21 Oxtung

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:00 AM

I'll echo most others here and say his placement of Thorpe was pretty surprising. I'd love to know what separates Thorpe from Gonsalves and Jorge by so much. I think Vargas is probably ranked too high. A guy who is all bat had better be phenomenal, IMO. Lastly I'm surprised that Sulbaran isn't ranked. I know that scouts don't love his stuff, but he is a lefty that throws low 90's and dominated low A-ball. Just spit-balling here but I wonder if lefties should get a "positional adjustment" similar to SS or C.

#22 iastfan112

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:13 AM

I'll echo most others here and say his placement of Thorpe was pretty surprising. I'd love to know what separates Thorpe from Gonsalves and Jorge by so much. I think Vargas is probably ranked too high. A guy who is all bat had better be phenomenal, IMO. Lastly I'm surprised that Sulbaran isn't ranked. I know that scouts don't love his stuff, but he is a lefty that throws low 90's and dominated low A-ball. Just spit-balling here but I wonder if lefties should get a "positional adjustment" similar to SS or C.


Sulbaran is listed under other C+ prospects so its not as if there is a significant difference between him and anyone in the 14-20 range.

As for Thorpe age relative to league, he's younger than both were when they hit the GCL and put up better K/BB ratios as well. Sickels made his stuff sound more impressive as well. Again its only half a letter grade so its not as if there is a massive gulf between the 3.

#23 Badsmerf

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:23 AM

I saw him in some GCL games but more in Instructionals and he is good, I hope the Twins are as aggressive with him as they were with Berrios last year but then again we all know how reserve the Twins are about callups.

Thorpe is just so young right now that even a level a year puts his debut at an age where guys are just finishing college. I doubt they will take him that slow, but at point he is so young that there is no need to get in a hurry. If they had wanted him to be in Cedar Rapids this year they would have promoted him to E-Town. He should have another year of HS left right? That might be why they just left him in the GCL this season and E-Town next season.
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#24 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:46 AM

No mention of Edgar Ibarra? AA All-Star, -2.00 ERA at New Britian and Rochester? Must be an oversight...

#25 TRex

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

In regards to Thorpe and other young pitchers making the jump to full season ball...

I think the main driving force for the slow promotions of the Twins (and other clubs) is innings pitched. Berrios was promoted at the end of April due to injuries and look at how he struggled with decreased velocity at the end of the season. It seems like he handled the mental part of his struggles okay, and that his mechanics didn't get out-of-whack (which could lead to injury). But will the 20-30 innings of low-A work he got by being promoted in April vs. mid-to-late May really have that much impact on when he gets to Minnesota!

#26 Seth Stohs

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:43 AM

No mention of Edgar Ibarra? AA All-Star, -2.00 ERA at New Britian and Rochester? Must be an oversight...


Not sure that Ibarra is a prospect as much as he is a potential decent LOOGY option down the line.

#27 Seth Stohs

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

In regards to Thorpe and other young pitchers making the jump to full season ball...

I think the main driving force for the slow promotions of the Twins (and other clubs) is innings pitched. Berrios was promoted at the end of April due to injuries and look at how he struggled with decreased velocity at the end of the season. It seems like he handled the mental part of his struggles okay, and that his mechanics didn't get out-of-whack (which could lead to injury). But will the 20-30 innings of low-A work he got by being promoted in April vs. mid-to-late May really have that much impact on when he gets to Minnesota!


Berrios was called up at the end of April because of his involvement in the WBC. He worked out of Puerto Rico's bullpen, so they kept him in EST to get stretched out. That said, I do agree with your premise that it is about innings and growing those from year to year.

#28 Oxtung

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

Jorge and Gonzalves were both age appropriate as well. Thorpe is a little younger but he is not like Urias from the dodgers. Stats that low in the minors mean less than scouting reports. I'm sure does have better stuff but I would like to know specifically what makes him better at this stage of their careers.

Sulbaran is listed under other C+ prospects so its not as if there is a significant difference between him and anyone in the 14-20 range.

As for Thorpe age relative to league, he's younger than both were when they hit the GCL and put up better K/BB ratios as well. Sickels made his stuff sound more impressive as well. Again its only half a letter grade so its not as if there is a massive gulf between the 3.


#29 Lefty74

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

Does anyone have input on Madison Boer? I would have expected our 2nd round pick from 2011? to be on list or at least a mention in "others". Haven't really followed him, but wondering what the word is--clearly he must not be living up to 2nd round status....

#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:07 PM

Thorpe and Berrios give me the most hope about that list (and over 20 players with a C+ or better grade, WOW). We know about Meyer but he can't pitch five days in a row. The Twins badly need guys who can come up and be an acceptable #3 starter.

#31 righty8383

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

Does anyone have input on Madison Boer? I would have expected our 2nd round pick from 2011? to be on list or at least a mention in "others". Haven't really followed him, but wondering what the word is--clearly he must not be living up to 2nd round status....


Not really a prospect at all. Pitched decent out of the bullpen for Cedar Rapids, a league that he is too old for. He was terrible in 2012, despite pitching in the pitcher friendly FSL.

#32 cmb0252

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

BA America released their 2013 draft report cards today which focused on players first impressions. This is how they made their lists:

[FONT=Helvetica Neue]"We put a final bow on the 2013 draft with our annual team-by-team review of all the selections and how the players’ professional careers have started. Editor in chief John Manuel, managing editor J.J. Cooper and assistant editor Clint Longenecker spoke with scouting directors, as well as other scouting and player development personnel, to break down each of the 30 draft classes."

While third round pick Turner was tagged as the 3rd best defensive player Stewart was the one who really shined. He was given the second best fastball, 5th best secondary pitch (him and Gray were the only players to be on both list and there was only one more HSer to make either list), best HS athlete (Buxton held this honor last year), and quickest HS player to the bigs. Obviously people around the league see something special in Mr.Stewart. The only other Twin to make it was Tanner Vavra for second best human interest story.

Link below:
[/FONT]
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2013-draft-report-cards-first-impressions-of-the-draft-classes/

#33 Lefty74

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

Not really a prospect at all. Pitched decent out of the bullpen for Cedar Rapids, a league that he is too old for. He was terrible in 2012, despite pitching in the pitcher friendly FSL.



Thanks, very helpful.

#34 iastfan112

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

Jorge and Gonzalves were both age appropriate as well. Thorpe is a little younger but he is not like Urias from the dodgers. Stats that low in the minors mean less than scouting reports. I'm sure does have better stuff but I would like to know specifically what makes him better at this stage of their careers.


Performance relative to peers always matters, maybe less so for Rk leagues but it does matter, especially if the numbers are backed up by the stuff which for Thorpe it is. Also 1 full year in prospect terms is significant, no he's not a freak like Urias but being 17 vs Jorge and Gonsalves being 18 is significant. Generally more chance for a 17 year old to grow 3 inches and add to his fastball then it is for a guy who is older, even just a year.

#35 Oxtung

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:09 PM

Performance relative to peers always matters, maybe less so for Rk leagues but it does matter, especially if the numbers are backed up by the stuff which for Thorpe it is. Also 1 full year in prospect terms is significant, no he's not a freak like Urias but being 17 vs Jorge and Gonsalves being 18 is significant. Generally more chance for a 17 year old to grow 3 inches and add to his fastball then it is for a guy who is older, even just a year.


Well we will have to disagree on just how much difference a year makes when both are age appropriate for the league and how much statistics matter at RK ball, but that really wasn't my point. I want to know what the scouts see differently (as I said scouting reports matter more in the lower minors than statistics) between the three pitchers. Really the big thing here is we don't have much to go on for Jorge or Gonsalves at this point (or Thorpe outside of Sickels.)

#36 cmathewson

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:26 PM

Thorpe and Berrios give me the most hope about that list (and over 20 players with a C+ or better grade, WOW). We know about Meyer but he can't pitch five days in a row. The Twins badly need guys who can come up and be an acceptable #3 starter.


I'd amend this to say, "Outside of Stewart, Thorpe and Berrios give me the most hope..."

Stewart is the only pitcher we've drafted in more than a decade with true #1 upside.
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#37 iastfan112

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:27 PM

BA America released their 2013 draft report cards today which focused on players first impressions. This is how they made their lists:

[FONT=Helvetica Neue]"We put a final bow on the 2013 draft with our annual team-by-team review of all the selections and how the players’ professional careers have started. Editor in chief John Manuel, managing editor J.J. Cooper and assistant editor Clint Longenecker spoke with scouting directors, as well as other scouting and player development personnel, to break down each of the 30 draft classes."

While third round pick Turner was tagged as the 3rd best defensive player Stewart was the one who really shined. He was given the second best fastball, 5th best secondary pitch (him and Gray were the only players to be on both list and there was only one more HSer to make either list), best HS athlete (Buxton held this honor last year), and quickest HS player to the bigs. Obviously people around the league see something special in Mr.Stewart. The only other Twin to make it was Tanner Vavra for second best human interest story.

Link below:
[/FONT]
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2013-draft-report-cards-first-impressions-of-the-draft-classes/


Interesting that Stewart is viewed as the fastest HS player to the majors, with how raw and inexperienced he is as a pitcher. Highly encouraging as well.

#38 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:31 PM

Not sure that Ibarra is a prospect as much as he is a potential decent LOOGY option down the line.


So, a LOOGY is not a prospect? This is not to say that Ibarra is an 'A' prospect, but how about a B-/C+ at least.

Also, Ibarra faced 245 batters in 47 appearances last season, which means that he faced, on average, over five batters each game. Sounds more like a setup role than a LOOGY, IMHO.

#39 B Richard

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:31 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned it here, but regarding Thorpe's improvement....

I've seen a few different reports that he grew and put on a fair amount of weight. I remember seeing that he's throwing harder now with better stuff. I'll try to dig up a link if I can find one

#40 righty8383

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:41 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned it here, but regarding Thorpe's improvement....

I've seen a few different reports that he grew and put on a fair amount of weight. I remember seeing that he's throwing harder now with better stuff. I'll try to dig up a link if I can find one


Would be great to see more scouting reports on him. The intrigue has definitely gone up.