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Game Thread: Indians@Twins 9/29 Game 162 Final Game 2013

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#1 Riverbrian

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

Indians: SP Ubaldo Jimenez

CF Bourn
1B Swisher
2B Kipnis
DH Santana
RF Raburn
SS Cabrera
LF Brantley
C Gomes
3B Aviles

Twins: SP Scott Diamond

CF Presley
2B Dozier
3B Plouffe
DH Doumit
1B Parmelee
RF Herrmann
LF Thomas
C Fryer
SS Florimon

Final Things to Think About:

1. Think about 2013... It's been another long year for our Twins. I'm not going to break out a bunch of stats to prove or disprove my feelings but I did watch a lot of Twins baseball this year. I tend to agree with Terry Ryan when he says that the pitchers pitched better than the metrics suggest. No we didn't have a shut down rotation but the rotation did keep us in games enough that we could have had a later draft position in 2014. When I look back at 2013... I look at the offense primarily and the failure of the offense to compete. I saw the lack of the little things that the Twins used to be good at. I saw the lack of key hits at key moments that put W's on the board. I saw way too many strikeouts and it's hard to get anything moving when you are whiffing at an alarming rate and most of all... I saw a disappointing lack of power from a lineup that should have produced power. When Brian Dozier is your home run leader... That's great for Brian Dozier but terrible for a team that has Josh Willingham, Justin Morneau, Trevor Plouffe, Chris Parmelee, Ryan Doumit, Oswaldo Arcia and Chris Colabello expected to hit homers. Granted not all 7 of those had enough at bats to reach 20 homers but all of them have 20 homer potential and in the case of Willingham, Morneau and Plouffe... dare I say... 30 Homer potential. There is no doubt that the pitching needs to improve and the Twins won't get better until the pitching improves... It's that simple... but when I look back at 2013... It was the hitting that stood out as the primary problem among multiple problems.

2. Think about 2014... I suspect that most of us don't feel optimistic about 2014... In case you need a shot of optimism... Here's my best shot of it. Players get better. Take Brian Dozier for example... We were not very happy with him as a SS in 2012... We are very happy with him as a 2B in 2013. Look at players like Pedro Alverez in Pittsburgh... He was top prospect who struggled mightily before figuring it out and becoming the power hitter that everyone thought he would be. Just because 2013 went a certain way doesn't mean it will be the same in 2014. Vance Worley might be better... Aaron Hicks might be better... Oswaldo Arcia can continue to grow and be better. Chris Parmelee might do something decent for us all to enjoy. Josmil Pinto might become a top flight hitting catcher. Joe Mauer may continue to be Joe... Josh Willingham may return to 30 homers. Sano may hit the ground running and be Longoria, Puig, or Braunesque in his 2014 debut. Maybe Plouffe will crawl out of my doghouse. The bottom line is 2013 has nothing to do with 2014. It will be a fresh start and all it will take is a nice stretch of victories and the feeling that they can actually win and have fun doing so. If the team feels like it can win... It will and if they win... it will be like everybody is a different ball player.

3. Think about the Youngsters... Buxton, Sano, Gibson, Meyer, May, Arcia, Pinto, Hicks. We will have some ups and downs with these guys but these guys will most likely be leading this team in the future and sometime to come. The Future is bright... The only problem is that the future isn't here yet.

4. Think about 1,000 Wins... DANG IT... It isn't going to happen... The Twins will win today... It's a no doubter... Gardenhire was destined to finish at 999. Plus... The Playoff Gods love complication... The Indians will lose today just to complicate the Wild Card. A victory for the Twins today is already set in stone. As for Gardenhire... I respect him and I always have and I do not blame him for our current situation but... I do feel it's time for a change. I want a yelling screaming high energy manager. I want a guy who will get in a veteran or rookies grill and let them know that they are going through the motions when they go through the motions. I want a guy who is getting his first job in the majors and therefore a guy who wants to win to secure his future. I don't want a guy who has been through it all before... I want a guy who will over react and present to the team like failure in little details is the end of mankind.

5. Think about the Game Threads... This is the final game thread of 2013... I was hoping to participate in this last one but I forgot that my Fantasy Hockey Draft is today and I'm heading out of town for the draft party and will have to prepare for the draft. I have about 3 hours to go over depth charts and figure out what a Gabriel Landeskog is.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the Game Thread over the past year. The game thread was a wonderful place to congregate because of everyone's participation and it will get better next year with even more participation as others join in. It was never an exclusive club and participation is encouraged... I honestly believe that no one is the slightest bit judgmental of failed attempts at humor or straightforward points on the game thread. There is no pressure to be funny so just jump in... You can be the straight man because funny guys like Chief and Ash will need straight material to work with.

In my opinion... The Game Thread was like a bunch of us sitting in the left field bleachers talking about life and occasionally the game itself. The Game thread was special because we didn't argue with each other like some of the other TD game threads... We all turned whatever direction it was heading. If someone said that Brian Dozier was great... we went along with that thought... If someone said that Brian Dozier was horrible... we went along with that thought. If someone didn't like potatoes... We could think of funny things or find funny photos of potatoes in strange places to support the horribleness of potatoes. Nobody called anyone else an idiot and it made the place comfortable. We just travelled down the road and we had no idea where the road was leading but we usually enjoyed the ride.

I will be spending the winter... Waiting for the first game thread of 2014.

Thanks to all.
A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

#2 Winston Smith

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

To Brian great job!
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May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

think about.... I just lost my train of thought...

#4 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:12 AM

RB: I join with others in expressing my appreciation for your work setting up game threads. Thank you.

Just one thing...when you say "funny" like Chief and Ash, you mean humorous, right?

#5 big dog

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:13 AM

To Brian great job!
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Is that Gabrielle Landescog? What kind of fantasy draft is this?

#6 PseudoSABR

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:17 AM

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#7 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

RB, you outdid yourself! I'm already looking forward to 2014!

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#8 Halsey Hall

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:44 AM

Thanks, RB for the GDT's. Even though alot of this goes right over this old guys head. Finally, this season comes to an end. Though, in about a week I'll be looking forward to alot of changes and spring training. It should be an interesting off season.

#9 Thegrin

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:08 AM

I vow to watch every last minute of this game, no matter how many times we strike out with RISP.

#10 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

Merely clicking Like on Brian's intro seemed insufficient, so:

180px-Potato_heart_mutation.jpg

#11 stringer bell

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

I want to echo the appreciation for RB's game day threads. These threads, with the tone set by RB, have been something to look forward to and enjoy during an increasingly dismal season.

#12 stringer bell

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:03 PM

As a change of pace, I thought I might offer up some topics during the thread and see if my opinions are on the mark. Comment 1--Parmelee starts at first today. Does he have any chance of being a regular for the Twins? I think the chance is small but given the options, he might get an opportunity next year. Ryan said they needed to "fix" Parm. He might need to get in better shape in order to be a good player.

#13 stringer bell

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:14 PM

Comment 2--Plouffe finishes as the Twins #3 hitter. Miguel Sano is on the way. Ryan sounded a cautionary tone about Sano, but Sano remains a Top 5 minor league prospect. Does Plouffe have a future with the Twins? I see him as the ultimate tease, stiff and uninstinctive in the field, streaky and strikeout prone on offense. I would hope that the Twins could move him after a productive month or two. He has right handed power, something lacking on the Twins, but just can't sustain.

#14 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:22 PM

Brian's game thread setups have been a highlight of this season for me, and I am grateful for all of Brian's hard work.

#15 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:25 PM

As a change of pace, I thought I might offer up some topics during the thread and see if my opinions are on the mark. Comment 1--Parmelee starts at first today. Does he have any chance of being a regular for the Twins? I think the chance is small but given the options, he might get an opportunity next year. Ryan said they needed to "fix" Parm. He might need to get in better shape in order to be a good player.


I was pleasantly surprised by Parm's fielding, but it seems to me that there is some problem with his hitting that may or may not be fixable.

#16 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:28 PM

Comment 2--Plouffe finishes as the Twins #3 hitter. Miguel Sano is on the way. Ryan sounded a cautionary tone about Sano, but Sano remains a Top 5 minor league prospect. Does Plouffe have a future with the Twins? I see him as the ultimate tease, stiff and uninstinctive in the field, streaky and strikeout prone on offense. I would hope that the Twins could move him after a productive month or two. He has right handed power, something lacking on the Twins, but just can't sustain.


My sense is that Plouffe has all the tools to be a decent fielder and an excellent hitter, and his tragic flaw is a lack of concentration and resolve. Or maybe he is a victim of a lot of small injuries.

#17 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

As a change of pace, I thought I might offer up some topics during the thread and see if my opinions are on the mark. Comment 1--Parmelee starts at first today. Does he have any chance of being a regular for the Twins? I think the chance is small but given the options, he might get an opportunity next year. Ryan said they needed to "fix" Parm. He might need to get in better shape in order to be a good player.


Until we know what's happening with Mauer, who knows where that leaves Parmelee. And unless he turns some kind of major corner, I'd say his future is pretty short. But who knows. I've learned that there is no way to predict what decisions the FO makes.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#18 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:35 PM

I keep wondering whether the Twins would have had a much better season this year if they had Francona as their manager.

#19 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:35 PM

okay, good, they are playing sappy commercials. a good cover in case I need to shed a tear over this game.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#20 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:39 PM

I keep wondering whether the Twins would have had a much better season this year if they had Francona as their manager.


You know the saying .. you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear ... while maybe a different manager would have made the difference in a few more wins, ultimately, the make up of the team is more the reason why we are the way we are. imo.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#21 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:39 PM

okay, good, they are playing sappy commercials. a good cover in case I need to shed a tear over this game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPqYnC-SW5w

#22 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPqYnC-SW5w


Pfft ... I'd have never let Tom Hanks get away with that.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#23 Winston Smith

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:42 PM

Best to let Yogi explain another season like the last :
https://encrypted-tb...IOv0Arwx9SxhDM4
Think about we could lose 96 games again and we went 9-1 against the Brewers and Astros.
IMO we are in worse shape after this year than we were after last. More question marks and more players showing they don't belong. Sorry that was kind of serious. I'll go back in my corner now!

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#24 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:47 PM

You know the saying .. you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear ... while maybe a different manager would have made the difference in a few more wins, ultimately, the make up of the team is more the reason why we are the way we are. imo.


I understand what you are saying. But taking Plouffe as an example, it seems to me that he has the talent, the tools and the potential to be a silk purse. What if he had a manager who met with him informally several times a week to help him focus his skills and who gave him a lot of positive reinforcement? And what if the Twins had a manager who had a detailed strategy for getting the most out of each player?

Maybe Gardy is doing all this and more. And obviously the Twins had some players who lack potential. But I keep wondering whether better managing and coaching might have resulted in an overall better attitude and more than a few additional wins.

#25 glunn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

That last play proves to me that Plouffe can play good defense, when his head is in the game.

#26 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

I had some hopes for a nice game by Diamond to close out the season. First three batters reaching base, two runs in, and there goes that theory.

I still hold some hope for a few of the players given lengthy tryouts in 2013, but I believe Ryan needs to cut ties with most of the clutter that is on this 40-man roster. Preferably by 3-for-1 trades to get some minor leaguers with upside, but DFA if need be. 2013 was supposed to be about finding out what we've got, and the answer (at the 40-man roster level) is "not much".

Edited by ashburyjohn, 29 September 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#27 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:01 PM

I understand what you are saying. But taking Plouffe as an example, it seems to me that he has the talent, the tools and the potential to be a silk purse. What if he had a manager who met with him informally several times a week to help him focus his skills and who gave him a lot of positive reinforcement? And what if the Twins had a manager who had a detailed strategy for getting the most out of each player?

Maybe Gardy is doing all this and more. And obviously the Twins had some players who lack potential. But I keep wondering whether better managing and coaching might have resulted in an overall better attitude and more than a few additional wins.


I hear ya. Unfortunately, the only way to find out is to make changes. I hesitate to use the term 'better' but certainly a different approach is warranted. But in Plouffe's case, I think it's more than a different manager, I wonder what the heck is Plouffe's problem. I think it's more than just a manager.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#28 stringer bell

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:02 PM

Comment 3--I am a Diamond fan and his regression was predictable. However, for him to fall so far, so fast, is astonishing. I think his arm was and may still be less than 100% and I think he will be in the rotation next year with results closer to 2012 than 2013. He's got enough stuff to be effective, but he does need command and good defense.

#29 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:02 PM

That last play proves to me that Plouffe can play good defense, when his head is in the game.


Here again, I don't think the onus is just the manager's for that. At the level Plouffe is at, I think his focus is on him.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.


#30 stringer bell

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

Comment 4--Gardy! He will miss out on 1000 wins for the Twins. While his moves and methods have been panned here, I think he's done a good job with flawed team. That said, I think it is time for a new voice and new emphasis. Gardy and his guys will find jobs somewhere else, I imagine, and it could be a win-win for Gardy and the Twins.