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Matt Cassel is not the answer

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#1 mike wants wins

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:35 AM

Well, this might be a win, but he's already proven not to be good.....

Not a real fan of any of the Vikes' options here.....just lose baby.
Lighten up Francis....

#2 Danchat

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:01 PM

Teddy Bridgewater here we come!!!!

I actually think Ponder is better because of his scrambling ability. I saw in the preseason that Cassel looked bad playing Musgrave's offense. However maybe Cassel has some pocket presence....

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

At this point, I say lose out. Get the top pick and draft a franchise QB and be done with it... I kind of wonder if that may have been a plan all along when the team had 3 first round picks and drafted only 1 with the intent on starting day 1...

#4 highlander

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:41 AM

actually he just signed for two more years. now we can focus on our weakest link the secondary. dennard or gilbert round one. van noy if available round two. buchanon or dixon round three. resign griffen and we should be in the play offs. we like, i'm contributing anything

#5 biggentleben

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:13 AM

actually he just signed for two more years. now we can focus on our weakest link the secondary. dennard or gilbert round one. van noy if available round two. buchanon or dixon round three. resign griffen and we should be in the play offs. we like, i'm contributing anything


Matt Williamson was on the Ross Tucker Football Podcast this week, and he stated that the Vikings re-signing Cassel would not prevent him from starting the season under center in Houston as Houston has great picks they could offer for Cassel, but the Vikings could have blocked any attempt to sign him the way his contract had been set up previously. O'Brien is a big fan of Cassel's, so it might mean the Vikings get a 3rd or 4th round pick for him from Houston.
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#6 TheLeviathan

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:12 PM

Maybe they see a guy in the 2nd/3rd round and Cassel is a placeholder. I will say this, if you don't like the guys in this draft don't force it like Ponder. The franchise needs to go forward, unlike how Ponder set us back three years.

#7 snepp

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:19 PM

Matt Cassel is the answer.



To which question, I don't know.

#8 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:33 PM

They just handed a ton of money to Griffin today. That should further narrow our targets in the first round to LB, CB, and QB.

#9 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:57 AM

I don't think Cassel's signing effects the draft much....Griffen's clearly does. If they would cut Felton, they would have enough money to sign two more high priced starters. NT and DB are the obvious spots. Lots of LBers will be available to their 2nd round pick that could start.
Lighten up Francis....

#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:09 AM

I would be thrilled if the landed Alturran Verner from the Titans. We have some strong connections they think may help with that. Landing him would really give us some options with that 8th pick, including trading back a bit.

I'd prefer they address the DT position in the draft. You can often get some quality play from that position without shelling out a top pick for it. (It also seems like a high-bust position for earlier picks).

#11 biggentleben

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:44 AM

I'm not sure if DT is as much as a bust position as it is a tough position to prove effectiveness. Pat Williams was one of the more effective DTs in the league in his time with the Vikings, but he never really had tackles or sacks or anything you can put on paper to prove it. Russell Maryland was absolutely worth the pick he was selected at, but he gets seen as a "bust" possibility (even though he's a worthy consideration for the HOF!) because he was drafted so highly and never really had any big stats to show for it. More recently, Glen Dorsey has faced similar scrutiny, though if you watch the game closely, his ability to occupy 2+ blockers is what allows a guy like Derrick Johnson to be the beast that he is. Not saying there aren't plenty that do bust, but I don't think it's any more than any other position. It's just that typically the most hype a defensive interior guy ever gets is leading up to the draft because they just aren't very hyped at all in the pro game.
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#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

I'm not looking to judge them by sacks or anything ben. I'm a former lineman, I get how you bring your lunch pail and don't expect to get any glory or credit for what you do.

But I think you can get lunchpail, nose tackle types later than the top 10. I wouldn't target that position there.

#13 biggentleben

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'm not looking to judge them by sacks or anything ben. I'm a former lineman, I get how you bring your lunch pail and don't expect to get any glory or credit for what you do.

But I think you can get lunchpail, nose tackle types later than the top 10. I wouldn't target that position there.


Yeah, no doubt there, but if for some reason they trade back, there are a number of guys in the 15-25 range that could be solid to pick up.
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#14 kab21

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:29 PM

It seems like there is a chance that one of the top 3 QB's makes it to the Vikings if other teams decide to wait until the 2nd/3rd rd to pick a QB. But if the 3 QB's and Gilbert are gone then it seems like the Vikings are going to be reaching at #8 to fill a need.

#15 TheLeviathan

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:01 PM

It seems like there is a chance that one of the top 3 QB's makes it to the Vikings if other teams decide to wait until the 2nd/3rd rd to pick a QB. But if the 3 QB's and Gilbert are gone then it seems like the Vikings are going to be reaching at #8 to fill a need.


I guess that depends on guys like Barr or CJ Moseley right? Though I suppose they could probably slide back 5-6 picks and still get those guys.

If one of the QBs slips I think they have to go that route, but I really think this team is in desperate need of a linebacker influx.

#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:18 AM

I guess that depends on guys like Barr or CJ Moseley right? Though I suppose they could probably slide back 5-6 picks and still get those guys.

If one of the QBs slips I think they have to go that route, but I really think this team is in desperate need of a linebacker influx.


Yeah, I agree. If the big three are gone I think the Vikes take one of the stud LB's (if they are still around) or just move down. I think this QB class is rather deep, I wouldn't be super opposed to grabbing a guy in the 2nd and another project in the 4th or 5th. Then filling out more or less every pick with a defensive guy (and maybe a solid 2nd TE in the 4th or 5th round)

In Re: to Cassel, I don't mind the signing one bit. It allows them to cut Ponder's worthless ass after they draft a QB or two (in no matter what round) Also it keeps them away from the absurd thought of signing Michael Vick. Cassel actually had a few nice games for this team last year IMO (Pitt, Philly, Chi) I wouldn't hate him going in as the starter in week one if they draft a QB who needs some work. Frankly, I think if he started all 16 games the Vikes are probably a 8 win team last year.
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#17 mike wants wins

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

If three QBs and Gilbert are gone, Clowney and Watkins will also be gone......that leaves one of these guys:

Mike Evans
Jake Mattews
Mack
Barr
Greg Robinson
Aaron Donald
Dennard

Those last two probably are better taken later....and some doubt Barr....but even taking out those three, that leaves them with a ocuple of top 10 players there. I'd bet they don't take an OL (even though they have a gaping hole at OG).....
Lighten up Francis....

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

In that scenario it's clearly Khalil Mack. But I'm not sure he's going to fall that far.

#19 kab21

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:28 PM

In that scenario it's clearly Khalil Mack. But I'm not sure he's going to fall that far.


At that point somebody has to fall. Most likely a QB, Gilbert and a tackle.

9 players likely to be picked before the Vikes or high on their list:
Clowney
3 QB's
Watkins
Mack
Gilbert
2 tackles

The concern with waiting until the 2nd rd is that there are a few teams in front of the Vikings that still need a QB even if the top 3 are taken in front of the vikings. There's a good chance that if the Vikings miss on the top 3 they might be waiting until the 3rd/4th rd.

Edited by kab21, 11 March 2014 - 06:32 PM.


#20 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

I'm not convinced those tackles get picked in the top 10. Matthews probably will be but neither of them are said to be high-end talents. Though one point in favor of your argument is the mad rush to add OL in FA. So I could be totally wrong there.

Also, I stand corrected on the DT thing. If you're going to go out and spend a bunch of your money on a DT, a guy like Linval Joseph is a good bet. Only 25, good pass rusher, very capable run defender. Good signing.

#21 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:02 AM

Joseph signing was very nice. 25 and good at his job. They paid Griffen and Joseph combined what Allen made last year. Seems like a good plan to me.

I think at least one of the OL goes top 10. Look at the draft history. Plus, the Rams 100% need an OT, if not more OL. If by some miracle neither OT has gone by 8, someone will want to trade up for one of them. And Spielman would want more picks this year. Deepest draft in ages.
Lighten up Francis....

#22 kab21

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

I'm not convinced those tackles get picked in the top 10. Matthews probably will be but neither of them are said to be high-end talents. Though one point in favor of your argument is the mad rush to add OL in FA. So I could be totally wrong there.


This is the worst case but that still means that the remaining 7 are the first 7 picks. I have seen Gilbert typically being available in mocks so I think he's likely to be the pick if the 3 QB's are taken (assuming Mack is taken).

#23 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

This is the worst case but that still means that the remaining 7 are the first 7 picks. I have seen Gilbert typically being available in mocks so I think he's likely to be the pick if the 3 QB's are taken (assuming Mack is taken).


I think if it's not a QB I'd prefer Gilbert or trading back for someone like Moseley.

#24 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:43 AM

As would I, Levi, but they might not find a partner. If they do trade back, I'd hope for Mosely, Dennard, or Marquis Lee to be there....
Lighten up Francis....

#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

Yeah, finding the partner might be tough. If one of those two OT does fall...that might be our ticket.

Either way, reading the Star Trib's breakdown of our current linebacker group is depressing. Like...really, REALLY depressing.

#26 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:28 PM

Yes, the LB are the weak link......
Lighten up Francis....