Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Recent Blogs


Photo

Making an offseason splash not exactly Twins' style

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:01 AM

article from Star Tribune:

Making an offseason splash not exactly Twins' style | Star Tribune

Ryan contends that the signing of Josh Willingham to a three-year, $21 million contract before the 2012 season — a record deal for a Twins free agent — is evidence that he will take a plunge into the rich end of the free-agent pool.


“I think you are mistaken when you don’t think $21 million is huge,” Ryan said.

Hmmm....

'I just know [Ryan] is going to be involved,” Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. “He knows this is not working right now, and he knows we have kids who are pretty good players coming. Trying to add to our pitching staff is not risky, it is a must. We have to have it. That has been sitting right in front of us.”'

Double Hmmm
Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#2 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,155 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

HAHA! I just made a comment about Terry Ryan and not understanding inflation. And then you post this! $21 million! HUGE, man.

#3 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,717 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:16 AM

Yeah, stuck in old ways. I think that's just the nature of the beast.

#4 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,526 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:02 PM

My favorite quote:

“We are not as staid and conservative as you make us out to be,” said Mike Radcliff, the Twins vice president in charge of player personnel. “There is some free thinking going on, and we are not afraid to get outside the box.”


I would love to know what that free thinking is! Can anyone point to an example of outside the box thinking?

#5 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:10 PM

My favorite quote:

“We are not as staid and conservative as you make us out to be,” said Mike Radcliff, the Twins vice president in charge of player personnel. “There is some free thinking going on, and we are not afraid to get outside the box.”

I would love to know what that free thinking is! Can anyone point to an example of outside the box thinking?


They should have said a bit more in that quote...finished it like this. 'We have absolutely no proof of this, no examples to give, you'll just have to take our word on it. Now where did my abacus go?'

Edited by ThePuck, 24 September 2013 - 12:20 PM.

Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#6 LastOnePicked

LastOnePicked

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:23 PM

These recent interview snippets continue to disturb me. Ryan uses distancing language when talking about FA strategy: “There are many different ways to go about accumulating talent." “You [emphasis mine] have to be prepared to pursue all of them.” I don't see Terry use "I" when talking about pursuing free agents. And his track record supports this.

Meanwhile, Gardy continues to refer to his involvement with the team going forward as a "we" or an "us." Considering his relationship with Ryan, it seems clear that the skipper has already been given an implicit contract extension, with details to be announced after his 1000th win or after the season's end. I'll be very surprised, and very happy, if I'm wrong about this, but all signs are pointing that direction.

As for Radcliff's comment at the end (“There is some free thinking going on, and we are not afraid to get outside the box.”) -- this is almost laughable. Sounds very much like an out-of-touch person trying to convince young people how "hip" he is. And the corporate cliches circa 1990 actually hurt his argument that the Twins are ready to move forward into a new era of baseball.

As with all things, the proof of these executive's commitment to success is well, actual success. Until then, it's all just talk and empty promises.

#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,242 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:31 PM

From that same article though, which shows you spending money just to spend money isn't always a great idea either, at the end of the day, I don't want the Twins to spend just to appease the masses, they need to make smart moves to compliment their nice core group of hitters coming up, that means giving out a couple 3-4 year contracts for nice pitchers, another 1-2 year contract on a high risk/high reward SP and a couple stop gaps for SS and 1B:

Cleveland signed Nick Swisher last offseason for four years and $56 million; the White Sox signed Adam Dunn for the same contract before the 2011 season. Kansas City even signed Gil Meche for five years and $55 million in 2006 then added Jose Guillen for three years and $36 million the next year.

#8 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,439 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:42 PM

“I think you are mistaken when you don’t think $21 million is huge,” Ryan said.


Sir, I think you are mistaken that I am mistaken.

Clearly it's a lot of money, but not in the context of a MLB operation. I'd like to see the players union responds to that remark. With that quote in mind, I doubt Ryan would have signed Joe Mauer to his large extension and I think this attitude is evidence (not proof) that he left his post so as not to have to worry about such deals as his, Morneau's, Hunter's or Santana's.

Edited by nicksaviking, 24 September 2013 - 01:54 PM.


#9 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,439 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:53 PM

My favorite quote:

“We are not as staid and conservative as you make us out to be,” said Mike Radcliff, the Twins vice president in charge of player personnel. “There is some free thinking going on, and we are not afraid to get outside the box.”


I would love to know what that free thinking is! Can anyone point to an example of outside the box thinking?


Once a week the front office orders lunch from Chipotle instead of their usual safe choice of Applebees.

#10 Twins Fan From Afar

Twins Fan From Afar

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 647 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

3 years, $21 million is huge, guys.
Oh wait, it's not 1995.
Nevermind then.
Andrew Walter
Twins Fan From Afar
Providing Twins and Rock Cats Coverage
http://twinsfanfroma...gspot.com<br />Follow me on Twitter: @MNfanfromafar

#11 S.

S.

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 206 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:01 PM

Once a week the front office orders lunch from Chipotle instead of their usual safe choice of Applebees.

Posted Image

#12 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:51 AM

Michael Rand at Randball did a follow up on Ryan's statement that, ' “I think you are mistaken when you don’t think $21 million is huge,”

Tuesday (Terry Ryan and 'huge' contracts) edition: Wha' Happened? | RandBall | StarTribune.com
Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#13 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    Ancient Member

  • Members
  • 696 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:05 AM

I would love to know what that free thinking is! Can anyone point to an example of outside the box thinking?


Um, believing that signing a really high number of pitchers means you'll have really good pitching?

I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.


#14 2wins87

2wins87

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 205 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:16 PM

Ok, Ryan deserves ridicule for that statement.

Still, I think the Twins will spend well over $21 million on free agent contracts for next year alone; I'd guess a bit over $30 million in obligations for 2014. They've got the payroll space and the FO has been making comments indicating that they want to spend this off-season.

And I do realize that many of you will find my optimism absurd, so we'll just have to see what happens.

#15 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:27 PM

Ok, Ryan deserves ridicule for that statement.

Still, I think the Twins will spend well over $21 million on free agent contracts for next year alone; I'd guess a bit over $30 million in obligations for 2014. They've got the payroll space and the FO has been making comments indicating that they want to spend this off-season.

And I do realize that many of you will find my optimism absurd, so we'll just have to see what happens.


They had the payroll space last year...Management said money wasn't an issue during last offseason...it's rinse, lather, repeat.
Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,242 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:26 PM

They had the payroll space last year...Management said money wasn't an issue during last offseason...it's rinse, lather, repeat.


I think its pretty clear, anything less then 100 million alone spent on FA wouldn't have turned this team into a winner in 2013

#17 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,551 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

I think its pretty clear, anything less then 100 million alone spent on FA wouldn't have turned this team into a winner in 2013


Even that would have not turned that team into a winner.

This team is rotten to the core and the changes need to start on the top with the Front Office the manager and coaches, before we start talking about players. Unless you fix that, you might see mediocre teams that go 3 and out in the post-season, but not winners.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#18 LaBombo

LaBombo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,309 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:30 PM

At first Ryan's assertion that $21 million in payroll is "huge" seemed wrong, but when you think about it, he's right.

Willingham was signed to replace Cuddyer, who will make $31.5 million over the same three years that Willingham's contract runs. Doumit was signed to replace Kubel's bat. He'll make $10 million over his 3 year deal, compared to Kubel's 22.5.

In other words, Ryan replaced two guys who cost $54 million with two who cost $31 million. So despite the increase in revenue from the new stadium, payroll was reduced by $23 million over the three years of Willingham's "huge" contract just on those two swaps alone.

So my bad, Mr. Ryan, $21 million really is a "huge" amount. Unfortunately, you didn't add 21 million huge dollars of Willingham, you subtracted 23 million even more huge dollars worth of ballplayers.

#19 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

At first Ryan's assertion that $21 million in payroll is "huge" seemed wrong, but when you think about it, he's right.

Willingham was signed to replace Cuddyer, who will make $31.5 million over the same three years that Willingham's contract runs. Doumit was signed to replace Kubel's bat. He'll make $10 million over his 3 year deal, compared to Kubel's 22.5.

In other words, Ryan replaced two guys who cost $54 million with two who cost $31 million. So despite the increase in revenue from the new stadium, payroll was reduced by $23 million over the three years of Willingham's "huge" contract just on those two swaps alone.

So my bad, Mr. Ryan, $21 million really is a "huge" amount. Unfortunately, you didn't add 21 million huge dollars of Willingham, you subtracted 23 million even more huge dollars worth of ballplayers.


and the 21 dollars is over three years instead of one year.
Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#20 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,903 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:32 AM

Ok, Ryan deserves ridicule for that statement.

Still, I think the Twins will spend well over $21 million on free agent contracts for next year alone; I'd guess a bit over $30 million in obligations for 2014. They've got the payroll space and the FO has been making comments indicating that they want to spend this off-season.

And I do realize that many of you will find my optimism absurd, so we'll just have to see what happens.


Given that they will be working off of a payroll base of ~$55M, spending "well over $21M" really won't impress too many folks. And the odds are the Twins will actually lower their base further by moving or not renewing some of their higher-priced talent in the offseason (Willingham, Burton &/or Doumit most likely).

The club is on record after the 2011 season that they expected several years of a lowering of the overall payroll- no real reason to expect that 2014 won't be a continuation of their self-admittedly-sought-out trend- I was lambasted last year when I predicted that 2013 Twins payroll would be under $85M, assuming that the FO status quo is maintained, I'm fully expecting a major league payroll that net-nets (after the lower-tier FA acquisitions and trades) under $70M for 2014.

#21 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,439 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:39 AM

and the 21 dollars is over three years instead of one year.


Right, only those trying to defend the lack of spending see Willingham as a $21 million player. He is in fact a $7 million player. If the Twins refuse to roll over excess savings into the following year's budget, they really should only be looking at the yearly cost. Same with any potential international free agent. Abreu or Tanaka may get $60 million, but at $10 million per year, that's not stretching anyone's budget too far. 103 players had a $10 million salary or higher last year.

#22 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:29 AM

Right, only those trying to defend the lack of spending see Willingham as a $21 million player.


To include Ryan himself...
Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

#23 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 7,252 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

How many quotes are we up to now, where Ryan is basically saying he does not believe in spending big money on any 1 FA? At some point, you have to look at his actions, and his words, don't you?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)