Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store

From MinnCentric


Photo

Article: Offense Lagging Along With M&M Boys

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,109 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:41 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...g-With-M-M-Boys

#2 pjnelly

pjnelly

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:40 AM

Great post, Nick. I just saw that the Twins as a team rank 6th in batting average, so it is definitely the heart of the order that needs to clean up some of those base-runners. What do you think about Willingham breaking up the the two lefties?

#3 PGTwinsfan

PGTwinsfan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:44 AM

I've been waiting for Gardy to dispense with the obsession of Mauer/Morneau back to back for years. This team has far more questions than answers and spring training is your time to figure things out. However, we trotted out the same lineup and only realized that Willingham is NOT a right fielder. Have a sinking feeling that this team could look VERY different by August 1st...and I'm not sure that would be a bad thing at this point. The Twins either need to get Morneau out in the field and/or out of the 4 spot to relieve some pressure on him and get his head back in the game.

#4 twinswon1991

twinswon1991

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 256 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:56 AM

Mauer will add a 2012 GIDP title to his 3 battiing titles. Joe is a #2 hitter now and moving Willingham to the 3 spot evens out the lineup. Carroll is more of a 8/9 hitter defintely not someone you want getting more AB than your power sticks.

#5 mnfireman

mnfireman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 193 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:03 AM

Gardy needs to separate M & M in the line-up. Morneau looks terrible right now, he missed at least 3 driveable pitches yesterday, and teams are pitching carefully to Mauer because of it. Carroll is a prototypical #2 hitter, except for the missed bunt attempt yesterday. Casilla should also be looking over his shoulder as he is not playing well right now.

#6 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,189 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:36 AM

Morneau seems to be having a lot of trouble with fastballs up-and-away, pitches that he used to feast on.

#7 jharaldson

jharaldson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 206 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:52 AM

Joe Mauer had some interesting comments to Shooter:

"I didn't feel very good coming out of (spring training), to tell you the truth. Leaving camp, it was trying to have your lower (body) half and upper half talk to each other. I'm still working and getting there."


http://www.twincitie...didnt-feel-very

The frustrating thing is that I don't know how much better of an offseason/spring training he could have had. He shut down early with the flu so he effectively had 4-5 months off with no surgery where he could just get ready for the season. If that isn't sufficient then something is wrong with him.

#8 ltwedt

ltwedt

    Member

  • Members
  • 83 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:57 AM

Patience my friends - Morneau is struggling because of his adjustment to being a full time DH, and Joe? . . . Well, he's just too nice to hit that ball! I would really like to see Mauer go on a Pavano-like tear in the dugout - like to see him yell, hit stuff with a bat, slam his glove, throw his mask, helmet, bat - geez - anything than more of this flat-line no emotion, All-American Boy image that he gives off. Agree with PGTwinsfan - this lineup will look far different in August - Goodbye Liriano and Pavs, so long Morney (heading to the Yanks), Baker will look much different in a White Sox uni, and Denard will find somewhere, too. Twins will be full of TR's "reclamation baseball players, and begin the draft refueling process that will enhance the minor leagues. I still think this year's group will win 80, but I might be really sweating it down the stretch!

#9 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,189 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:59 AM

Joe Mauer had some interesting comments to Shooter:



http://www.twincitie...didnt-feel-very

The frustrating thing is that I don't know how much better of an offseason/spring training he could have had. He shut down early with the flu so he effectively had 4-5 months off with no surgery where he could just get ready for the season. If that isn't sufficient then something is wrong with him.


I could have sworn we were told he was in perfect health in Spring Training.

So here's the chicken-and-egg problem: is Mauer not hitting because he doesn't feel right? Or are we getting these comments because he's not hitting?

#10 whydidnt

whydidnt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 379 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:16 AM

As long as Mauer and Morneau continue to fail to hit and either Strike Out or hit into a DP every time there are guys on base the Twins are going to be on the losing side of things. They have 40% of their payroll tied up in those 2, if they aren't producing it's going to be a loooong season. I agree that Mauer has no business hitting 3rd at this point. I think Morneau simply needs time and to relax, he's clearly pressing. As for Mauer, seriously dude, we know you like to look at the 1st pitch, and so does every pitcher in the league. Is it really necessary to start every at bat 0-1? Start turning and driving those grooved first pitches. I know some say he's been successful doing it his way for a long time, but I say the best players are those that continue to make adjustments and stay ahead of the competition. The entire Twins team, and especially Mauer need to make adjustments and put the other team on their heels for a change.

#11 deanlambrecht

deanlambrecht

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 149 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

Joe Mauer had some interesting comments to Shooter:



http://www.twincitie...didnt-feel-very

The frustrating thing is that I don't know how much better of an offseason/spring training he could have had. He shut down early with the flu so he effectively had 4-5 months off with no surgery where he could just get ready for the season. If that isn't sufficient then something is wrong with him.


I agree that these comments are quite problematic. Morneau and "rust" is a perfectly plausible explanation, but this Mauer comment makes little sense. If I recall correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), wasn't Joe saying the exact opposite about his physical conditioning when we were coming out of Spring Training and his BA was somewhere in the .350 range? Gulp.

#12 CDog

CDog

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 856 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

I agree that these comments are quite problematic. Morneau and "rust" is a perfectly plausible explanation, but this Mauer comment makes little sense. If I recall correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), wasn't Joe saying the exact opposite about his physical conditioning when we were coming out of Spring Training and his BA was somewhere in the .350 range? Gulp.


Seems clear to me that he was talking about his swing and not his physical condition.

#13 sotafan

sotafan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:20 AM

When do we need to look at getting rid of Vavra?? We need someone that can teach these two how to hit again. Vavra is not the guy. We need someone to kick Mauer in the A$$ and make the needed adjustments. I agree with whydidnt about the 1st pitch for Mauer. Hit the damn ball. Morneau has the opposite problem, take a few pitches. Willingham needs to bat 4th while Span and Carroll need to steal each and every time Mauer is up(on the first pitch). I would rather have them get thrown out 25% of the time then have a GIDP happen. At least you are challenging the pitcher and catcher.

#14 nokomismod

nokomismod

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

Yeah, I think we need to move Morneau down in the order until he gets his swing back.

#15 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Daily Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,394 posts
  • LocationLake Tahoe, Nevada

Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:55 AM

No criticism intended, really, but the thrust of this article is something we all knew at the end of the 2011 season: if Mauer and Morneau don't contribute in-line with their established careers then the 2012 team has no shot at even being a .500 team. To actually contend, the pitching needs to magically improve as well. The team record at this early juncture coincides pretty well with these two simple observations.

#16 WJ

WJ

    Member

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:36 AM

I don't think Gardenhire will move Morneau out of cleanup because he doesn't do that to veterans. Or move Mauer to no. 2 because that spot is reserved for a middle infielder. Two examples of Gardenhire managing with his heart instead of his head.
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Sometimes it rains."

#17 James Richter

James Richter

    Member

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

Seems clear to me that he was talking about his swing and not his physical condition.


That's how I read it, too.

Even this time next week would be awfully early to start projecting trends with these guys. Give them at least 100 PA.

#18 sotafan

sotafan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

I don't think Gardenhire will move Morneau out of cleanup because he doesn't do that to veterans. Or move Mauer to no. 2 because that spot is reserved for a middle infielder. Two examples of Gardenhire managing with his heart instead of his head.


Looks like you are wrong about that. Today's lineup has Willingham in the 4 hole, Morneau 5th.

#19 SBG

SBG

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

Joe and Justin, each with a little "how you like me now?" tonight.

#20 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,109 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:30 PM

Hey, just a clear sign that they read the site, right?

It's too early to panic with either of these players, but up to this point they haven't really shown signs that they're ready to reverse course after dismal 2011 campaigns. It would be awfully nice if they could begin doing so this week in New York.


#21 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:39 PM

Offense is fine. M & M boys are fine too!

#22 davidjcampbell

davidjcampbell

    Member

  • Members
  • 74 posts

Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

Mackey with another dig on bloggers yesterday on the air - I think he was talking about this article, which I had not read when I heard the comment. I think he was most concerned that you didn't mention the smallness of the sample sizes quoted.