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Twins Get Cash For Jamey Carroll

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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:37 PM

Is Terry Ryan trolling us? Per Phil Miller....

1. Not only did the Twins accept cash for Jamey Carroll instead of getting back a "prospect", but...
2. When asked what they got, Terry Ryan replied "Cash, Homey."

I know that what bothers me about this is mostly symbolic, but good lord, this is frustrating. It's not like the Twins scouts couldn't root around deep into KC's farm system and find something.

#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:39 PM

I know that what bothers me about this is mostly symbolic, but good lord, this is frustrating. It's not like the Twins scouts couldn't root around deep into KC's farm system and find something.


Now I'm just confused about what we're doing. Are we holding the line at "we have to get value" or not?

I'm not too worried about the cash, I think most of us can agree this organization is frustratingly cheap since TF opened, but Carroll didn't serve any purpose. The question is - why be ok getting nothing here and then dig your heels in so hard on Morneau and Willingham when there potentially is value to be had?

#3 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

They are clearly leaving no stone unturned......not.
Lighten up Francis....

#4 Pitz

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:46 PM

not like they really needed it to do so but maybe they'll use that cash to move morneau?

#5 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:54 PM

Perhaps the payroll slashing of the last couple of years is more intentional than many want to admit? Perhaps Terry Ryan really is under demand from ownership to make/save them as much money as possible?
Typically teams accept the cash considerations because they are right at their budget, and want to make sure they keep payroll where it needs to be.
I can't see any other reason why a team in our payroll situation would take the cash considerations, instead of as John puts it, "digging deep in the KC system to try to find something". Even if that player has a 1% chance or less of ever amounting to anything, that is still better than money that isn't going to be used for anything to help the product on the field.

#6 jokin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:54 PM

not like they really needed it to do so but maybe they'll use that cash to move morneau?


I wish Phil Miller would have directed that question to his "Homey".

#7 GCTF

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:59 PM

What'll you do with the money, Jim?

I don't know, throw it on the pile, I suppose.

#8 jokin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:07 PM

Perhaps the payroll slashing of the last couple of years is more intentional than many want to admit? Perhaps Terry Ryan really is under demand from ownership to make/save them as much money as possible?
Typically teams accept the cash considerations because they are right at their budget, and want to make sure they keep payroll where it needs to be.
I can't see any other reason why a team in our payroll situation would take the cash considerations, instead of as John puts it, "digging deep in the KC system to try to find something". Even if that player has a 1% chance or less of ever amounting to anything, that is still better than money that isn't going to be used for anything to help the product on the field.


The Twins, attributed through a source "close to the situation", made the admission 2 years ago through the main-stream-media of significant and continued payroll-cutting over the next 2-3 seasons likely being their prime objective- projections of a payroll as low as $50-55M were even openly speculated upon. The fates of Cuddyer, Kubel and Nathan were largely sealed after the July 31 trading deadline and during the ensuing public disclosure and debate, with some 60 games still on the schedule. The high supplemental draft picks were obviously discerned to be the lynchpin in jump-starting a long-term rebuild. Again, this happened 2 years ago in 2011, during this month of August, and obviously Bill Smith wasn't the source. So far, they have held up their source's end of that admission fully.

#9 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:17 PM

Maybe the PTBNL options KC were floating were garbage? Ryan knows what he is doing. Carroll had zero value and no reason to be on this team.

If the "options" weren't worth even taking a flier on, you might as well just take the cash.

At the end of the day, who cares? The way I look at it, we traded Caroll and butera and got a pretty decent prospect in return, that is a net win in my book.

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

Ryan knows what he is doing.


Are you sure about that?

Must be all the World Series rings...

FACT: Ryan has been the Twins' GM twice. Both times his teams had worse record than his predecessor's.
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#11 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:30 PM

The way I look at it, we traded Caroll and butera and got a pretty decent prospect in return, that is a net win in my book.


Sure, but it's sort of silly to combine deals to evaluate them. I could care less what they got for Carroll, I personally find this result amusing given some other things with the state of the team, but in the end no big deal.

It's just confusing how the team is holding out so hard in some negotiations and not others.

#12 Rosterman

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:48 PM

I'm sure there is a six-year minor league free agent or a 40-man guy who will be dropped from the roster that the Twins could've had...or someone, anyone, from the lowest of minors.

Where does this cash go, combined with getting rid of Jamey;s salary, Mauer's week of paternity leave. Is it for some season ending party? Doubt it will be spent next year, unless they wish to upgrade the executive lounge or something........

The Twins have proven that they are all about making money.....
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#13 rickyriolo

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:52 PM

well, The Pohlad's do love their cash

#14 Winston Smith

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:07 PM

Terry is doing his job!
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May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#15 70charger

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

Are you sure about that?

Must be all the World Series rings...

FACT: Ryan has been the Twins' GM twice. Both times his teams had worse record than his predecessor's.



This is ridiculously misleading, and you know it. That's like saying that Abraham Lincoln was in more wars than his predecessor, and therefore he must have been incredibly belligerent. And how many times have you seen a GM fired from a team in World Series contention?

Anyway, back on topic, I'm just not seeing why we'd want a guy who'll just block our good prospects and/or be released at the end of the year anyway. I can't muster the ability to care.

#16 PseudoSABR

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:08 PM

As I understand it, I think they did it as a service to Jamey. Jamey's not exactly worth his inflated contract much less some extra cash. That said, it's always more fun (as fans) to get any kind of player because you can dream on them. (That we received a warm body for Butera I think has made us a bit irrational in what to expect in these type of trades).

I just don't think saving the bosses some loot is as damnable as so many seem to. Nor do I believe this is an indication of the Front Office's ideology or things to come.

#17 jorgenswest

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:12 PM

They traded a guy of no value and received an equal return. There is no reason to take a guy from the Royals headed for minor league free agency. There is no reason to expect anything better.

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:23 PM

Anyway, back on topic, I'm just not seeing why we'd want a guy who'll just block our good prospects and/or be released at the end of the year anyway. I can't muster the ability to care.


In this case there is a good chance that cash was the best we'd get and we did this more for Carroll then us. Fine, but if there was something on the table like what we got for Butera - your other considerations should never be on the table.

Prospects flame out all the time, the more ammo your farm has, the better your odds of a successful rebuild.

#19 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:40 PM

But they would not do the same favor for Morneau?
Lighten up Francis....

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

Johnny or Roseanne?

#21 Thrylos

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:39 PM

Johnny or Roseanne?


That would be Rosanne. No e ;)
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#22 ashburyjohn

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:36 PM

2. When asked what they got, Terry Ryan replied "Cash, Homey."


Is "Straight cash, homey" a Randy Moss nod? I don't know Phil but I think he's pulling your leg about that. Unless you're pulling my leg...

#23 ashburyjohn

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:12 PM

Perhaps the payroll slashing of the last couple of years is more intentional than many want to admit? Perhaps Terry Ryan really is under demand from ownership to make/save them as much money as possible?


If that were the case, a GM wouldn't have signed a Jamey Carroll type for 7 figures in the first place.

#24 benchwarmerjim

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:15 PM

wait, the complaints are the Twins didnt get enough in return for Jamey Carroll? (who is 1-25 since joining the Royals)

I imagine if the Twins did get a player back, he would not be good enough prospect.

#25 Beezer07

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

What? The Twins didn't get a K-level prospect (NOTE: This would be several levels below a C-level prospect) for an essentially valueless player?!? OUTRAGE!!!!!

#26 nicksaviking

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:13 PM

[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave'] Ryan knows what he is doing.[/QUOTE]

As evidenced by what? I'm still waiting for positive results, not projections and speculation.


[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave']At the end of the day, who cares? The way I look at it, we traded Caroll and butera and got a pretty decent prospect in return, that is a net win in my book.[/QUOTE]

I guess they also got a pretty decent return for Scott Erickson and Bobby Kielty.

[quote name='benchwarmerjim']wait, the complaints are the Twins didnt get enough in return for Jamey Carroll? (who is 1-25 since joining the Royals)

I imagine if the Twins did get a player back, he would not be good enough prospect.[/QUOTE]

Yet but it would have been a tangible return. It's like buying a Powerball ticket and getting the Powerball number right. For some reason the Twins cashed the ticket out for thier 2 bucks back instead of getting a new ticket for the next drawing. Why bother playing at all if that's what you plan on doing with your asset.

#27 jokin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:25 PM

As evidenced by what? I'm still waiting for positive results, not projections and speculation.




I guess they also got a pretty decent return for Scott Erickson and Bobby Kielty.



Yet but it would have been a tangible return. It's like buying a Powerball ticket and getting the Powerball number right. For some reason the Twins cashed the ticket out for thier $2 bucks back instead of getting a new ticket for the next drawing. Why bother playing at all if that's what you plan on doing with your asset.


The whole point in a rebuilding team signing Doumit, Willingham and Carroll after 2011 was temporarily plugging holes in the lineup and looking at swapping them for assets that could play a part in their plans for when the turn comes. All 3 had seasons in 2012 that were either career-type, or at least raised their stock to teams that might need what they had to offer.

Although no one would reasonably expect Ryan to have sold high on all 3, Carroll, a career journeyman at 38 on the cellar-dwelling Twins, certainly could have been dealt in August of 2012 for far more than they ended up receiving yesterday. (Jamey had an August 2012 slash line of .296/.374/.333, that's the definition of selling high).

Jamey went on to finish the season really strongly, in September 2012, his slash proved he could have really helped a contender: .388/.419/.478.

Edited by jokin, 31 August 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#28 NoCal

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:01 AM

The Twins were very explicit that this was a transaction for Carroll - he is probably playing his last days of major league baseball, and they did him the favor of sending him to a team that actually was competitive. There was no market for "trading" Carroll; the organization displayed a bit of class here.

#29 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:03 AM

They traded a guy of no value and received an equal return. There is no reason to take a guy from the Royals headed for minor league free agency. There is no reason to expect anything better.


If you feel that cash has no value, I'll be more than happy to take yours off of your hands.

#30 Rosterman

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:16 AM

I think it was more of a need that KC needed a temporary infield plug and the possibility that Carroll, who is a wonderful guy, would be a nice addition to their team, albeit shortterm. And he was affordable. And for their situation, at the moment, a wizened vet would keep them more competitive than an unproven rookie. But it sorta backfired.

I
still think the Twins needed to turn this transaction into getting the long-loved Bruce Chen into a Twins uniform.
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