Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Stanton!?

  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

#1 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 1,968 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

Cafardo setting us to be disappointed

Who might be the best position to acquire Giancarlo Stanton if the Marlins were to make him available this offseason? -Start with the Twins and Redsox.

This seems like speculation (based on the strength of our farm), but that Cafardo doesn't dismiss the Twins out of hand means something I guess.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 11 August 2013 - 09:59 AM.


#2 darin617

darin617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 608 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:18 AM

Absolutely no chance of this happening. What does 1 bat do when you have poor starting pitching? Pittsburgh would be a more likely choice than Minnesota. The Twins need their prospects so they can keep the payroll under $65M for the next decade. Cheap Pohlad boys are making their father proud by greedier than him. This organization will never succeed until there are new owners who want to win, not just line their pockets.

#3 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:26 AM

Zero chance. None. No way this happens. Not because of payroll, imo, but because Ryan strikes me as the guy that would rather have 3-4 very good prospects than have 1 great player. Given where they are right now, he's right.
Lighten up Francis....

#4 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

Trade prospects to get a great player? No way would Ryan do that. Yes, due to our farm system, we would be be in great position to get Stanton. That's what the writer says. He doesn't say he believes there's any chance we would do it.

#5 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:38 AM

If I was the Twins GM I would be talking to Miami but it would be about Fernandez not Stanton. Trading for Fernandez would be costly but it would also fill that front of the rotation hole we have for the next 4-5 years. I have been looking at what the Twins could do to improve their team and this was one idea I had that doesn't involve a big name FA.

#6 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Daily Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,875 posts
  • LocationLake Tahoe, Nevada

Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:49 AM

If I was the Twins GM I would be talking to Miami but it would be about Fernandez not Stanton. Trading for Fernandez would be costly...


It might take Buxton or Sano plus another solid prospect to do this. Would you?

It'll come down to talent evaluation by the experts in the Twins front office - if they have spotted something that might lower the ceiling on one of their top guys, it could be a way to get the talent pipeline into better balance for pitching versus position players. But if you end up with a trade that's seen years later as being on the order of Miguel Cabrera for Roy Halladay, oof, tough to pull the trigger on that.

It's that question of balance that leads me away from thinking of trading for Stanton, good as he is. Do we believe the ceiling on Buck is lower than on Giancarlo? I doubt it. And we're not thin in outfield prospects.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 11 August 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#7 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

It might take Buxton or Sano plus another solid prospect to do this. Would you?

It'll come down to talent evaluation by the experts in the Twins front office - if they have spotted something that might lower the ceiling on one of their top guys, it could be a way to get the talent pipeline into better balance for pitching versus position players. But if you end up with a trade that's seen years later as being on the order of Miguel Cabrera for Roy Halladay, oof, tough to pull the trigger on that.


For Fernandez, I'd give up Sano and any pitching prospect we had that could be traded.

I doubt Miami makes him available until he's arbitration eligible. It's a fun would you or wouldn't you exercise, but it wouldn't happen for two reasons. Ryan wouldn't ever try it and Miami likely won't even consider it for another couple seasons.

#8 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:04 AM

It might take Buxton or Sano plus another solid prospect to do this. Would you?

It'll come down to talent evaluation by the experts in the Twins front office - if they have spotted something that might lower the ceiling on one of their top guys, it could be a way to get the talent pipeline into better balance for pitching versus position players. But if you end up with a trade that's seen years later as being on the order of Miguel Cabrera for Roy Halladay, oof, tough to pull the trigger on that.


Your cost estimate might be right. I was thinking Buxton and a Berrios/Rosario/Kepler level prospect depending on Miami's preferences. On the other hand earlier in the year it was rumored that Stanton was available but that Miami wanted a MLB ready player in return. I would assume that would be true for Fernandez as well (if they are even willing to move him.)

I have been weighing that very question myself and haven't come to an answer. We are starved for front of the rotation pitching and this would be a way to get it. We know Ryan won't sign it in FA. The only internal candidates the Twins have are Meyer and Stewart. Stewart won't be ready until ~2017. So for the next 4 years we're betting on a pitcher that has lost a significant amount of time to a sore shoulder this season. We're just in such bad shape.

#9 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

For Fernandez, I'd give up Sano and any pitching prospect we had that could be traded.

I doubt Miami makes him available until he's arbitration eligible. It's a fun would you or wouldn't you exercise, but it wouldn't happen for two reasons. Ryan wouldn't ever try it and Miami likely won't even consider it for another couple seasons.


He's arb eligible in 2016.

Edited by jokin, 11 August 2013 - 11:08 AM.


#10 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:07 AM

He's arb eligible in 2014.


Fernandez doesn't...I'm talking about Fernandez.

#11 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:09 AM

Fernandez doesn't...I'm talking about Fernandez.


Yeah, I changed it. What would it take to get both from the Marlins?

#12 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:11 AM

Yeah, I changed it. What would it take to get both from the Marlins?


That conversation would start with Buxton, Sano, Meyer and Rosario. It would end with Ryan choking to death on the gum he swallowed reflexively. :)

#13 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:16 AM

It might take Buxton or Sano plus another solid prospect to do this. Would you?

It'll come down to talent evaluation by the experts in the Twins front office - if they have spotted something that might lower the ceiling on one of their top guys, it could be a way to get the talent pipeline into better balance for pitching versus position players. But if you end up with a trade that's seen years later as being on the order of Miguel Cabrera for Roy Halladay, oof, tough to pull the trigger on that.

It's that question of balance that leads me away from thinking of trading for Stanton, good as he is. Do we believe the ceiling on Buck is lower than on Giancarlo? I doubt it. And we're not thin in outfield prospects.


We will also soon have an opening at 1B for some of those prospects, as well. Stanton would be perfect in Target Field, whereever the Twins end up playing him, he's currently shellshocked by what was done to him in Miami. Make him the offer to buy out his arb years and the beginning of his FA, and you tell Stanton that you're building the team around him, in RF, LF, 1B, whereever.

As far as the cost in acquisition.....Look at what was acceptable to the Marlins in exchange for Nolasco, not much.

Edited by jokin, 11 August 2013 - 11:21 AM.


#14 Cody Christie

Cody Christie

    Twins Contributor

  • Twins Contributors
  • 840 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:22 AM

I just posted a story about his very topic:

Fishing for the Biggest Marlin - Blogs - Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum

#15 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:24 AM

I wonder if Detroit regrets trading for Cabrera? LA for Hanley Ramirez?

If you can get a major league player in return for a prospect that might some day be roughly as good as the major league player already is, you will rarely regret that trade later.

#16 cmb0252

cmb0252

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,767 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:45 PM

Even though this has no backing and the only reason we are talking about it is because the strength of our farm system I will play a long. If we did try to trade for Stanton any deal would have to start with Sano. Marlins have a huge gap at third and tried and failed to fill it this past off season. After Sano you would have to add at least another top 10 system guy and a 10-20 guy. Worth it? Most likely.

Fernandez is a pipe dream. The Marlins talent line up with him so their is no point in talking about him. Move on.

Now, how about Price? Most experts suggest the Rays will try and trade him next year because of his ever growing price tag.

#17 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Confirmed Hacker

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,066 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

How good is Stanton really? I see him as very good, but not elite. Besides that, he's a corner OF. I think the player traded for has to be elite to go after him. Miggy is elite. I'm not sure that Stanto is.

#18 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 798 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:05 PM

When you trade for someone who is elite, you want to make sure you can sign them to a long term contract, want to sign them and have done the due diligence that they are going to continue to perform. Hitting is easier to trade for in this type of situation as pitching is so easy to get injured. You typically do not want to sign a pitcher to a 4+ year contract. Where as Stanton you could sign him to an 8 year deal and he will likely perform till his mid 30's. The question is what do we have to give up to get him and is it worth it? I don't see us trading for him, we could as we retool but why him? I would want to wait and see where we are when our own prospects come up and we see who we want to keep and who we want to trade. (Do we keep Hicks or trade him and wait for Kepler or Walker to come up and try to make it here.) In this instance why not wait a year and see if Hicks can make the transition to the majors and see how the other prospects develop? Same with Dozier and Rosario. though would you trade Kepler, Rosario, and may or Meyer for Stanton? would that be enough? Could we add Parmelee or Plouffe to that and subtract another prospect or add a smaller one instead? I guess there is enough redundant prospects to some degree but that is mostly on the hitting and relievers and we really need starting pitchers though. tough call. I wonder if the Twins ever think of stuff like this?

#19 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:10 PM

How good is Stanton really? I see him as very good, but not elite. Besides that, he's a corner OF. I think the player traded for has to be elite to go after him. Miggy is elite. I'm not sure that Stanto is.


For 2010-2013, Stanton is 2nd in OPS, SLG and ISO among all qualifying RFs (.886, .536, .270). Jose Bautista is 1st. He's 3rd in Homers, with 106. He's listed as 3rd best RF in UZR over that time frame, behind only Ichiro and Heyward. I guess that's elite for RFs?

Plus he's only 23, probably nowhere near his ceiling. The Twins lock him up for his 3 arb years and 5 more, he'd hit a ton of balls out in left field at Target all the way to 2022 (option year?), batting right behind Joe Mauer until at least 2018- with Sano and Arcia batting behind him as protection- Wow.

Edited by jokin, 11 August 2013 - 01:23 PM.


#20 cmb0252

cmb0252

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,767 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:23 PM

For 2010-2013, Stanton is 2nd in OPS, SLG and ISO among all qualifying RFs (.886, .536, .270). Jose Bautista is 1st. He's 3rd in Homers, with 106. He's listed as 3rd best RF in UZR over that time frame, behind only Ichiro and Heyward. I guess that's elite for RFs?

Plus he's only 23, probably nowhere near his ceiling. The Twins lock him up for his 3 arb years and 5 more, he'd hit a ton of balls out in left field at Target all the way to 2022 (option year?), batting right behind Joe Mauer until at least 2018.


Stanton has been injury prone and is having a down year. .241 BA, only 13 HRs, but does have an OPS of .800. He is still an elite young player seeing he is only 23 but let's not act like their are no rough edges.

#21 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,013 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:29 PM

If I was the Twins GM I would be talking to Miami but it would be about Fernandez not Stanton. Trading for Fernandez would be costly but it would also fill that front of the rotation hole we have for the next 4-5 years. I have been looking at what the Twins could do to improve their team and this was one idea I had that doesn't involve a big name FA.


Ryan would declare that Fernandez isn't ready and assign him to Ft Myers.

#22 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,013 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:30 PM

Yeah, I changed it. What would it take to get both from the Marlins?


Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller.

#23 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

Stanton has been injury prone and is having a down year. .241 BA, only 13 HRs, but does have an OPS of .800. He is still an elite young player seeing he is only 23 but let's not act like their are no rough edges.


The Marlins situation and Stanton's injury-plagued year are hopefully all in the equation of "buying low". With the numbers he's put up since being called up in 2010 at age 20, I'm more than willing to put up with any alleged "rough edges" for a proven major leaguer..... who immediately solidifies the middle of the Twins order.....who doesn't have the growing pains that would have to be endured with finding and establishing a prospect....and...who's put up back-to-back 30+ Home Run seasons at age 21 and 22, while providing elite-level defense in RF.

#24 cmb0252

cmb0252

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,767 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

The Marlins situation and Stanton's injury-plagued year are hopefully all in the equation of "buying low". With the numbers he's put up since being called up in 2010 at age 20, I'm more than willing to put up with any alleged "rough edges" for a proven major leaguer..... who immediately solidifies the middle of the Twins order.....who doesn't have the growing pains that would have to be endured with finding and establishing a prospect....and...who's put up back-to-back 30+ Home Run seasons at age 21 and 22, while providing elite-level defense in RF.


I stated in my......first post that I felt.......trading Sano+ would be worth it...... I was just pointing out.....the fact you ignored his current down year in your post.....which inaccurately shows his full career. Any team would be lucky to have a young player like Stanton.

#25 Smcginnity

Smcginnity

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 161 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:21 PM

I would trade Sano for Fernandez (maybe). More likely I would be willing trade Rosario, Pinto, and Adam Walker for Fernandez. I think that could get him.

#26 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:44 PM

I stated in my......first post that I felt.......trading Sano+ would be worth it...... I was just pointing out.....the fact you ignored his current down year in your post.....which inaccurately shows his full career. Any team would be lucky to have a young player like Stanton.


Nowhere did I ignore his current year, thus what you assert is most certainly not a fact.. All of his stats were included in my summation- ala "2010-2013". All stats are complete and accurate as of yesterday.

As I stated previously, Stanton got blindsided by the wholesale dismantlement of the Marlins last year. He's publicly wondered about his future and Marlins status ever since. That fact was compounded with his injury this year that have combined to lead to his drop in performance this year (he still has an .805 OPS and a 120 OPS+. With full health and a good lineup around him next year, he's very likely to resume the upper trajectory of his career and he likely has multiple 40+ HR and All Star-level seasons in his future.

Edited by jokin, 11 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.


#27 darin617

darin617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 608 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

Ryan would declare that Fernandez isn't ready and assign him to Ft Myers.

Exactly!!! In 3 years he would be the best pitch to contact pitcher for the Twins...

#28 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,092 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

I went out on a limb in my fantasy league (keeper) and drafted Stanton with the number 2 pick overall. The limb broke and Stanton is dead to me.

This kind of bizarre speculation makes me wonder about how difficult it is to become such a sportswriter (sports reporter is more difficult). The Twins might consider such a deal in about two years when some of the prospects are established, the system is still strong, and they are one player away. Not now, so this is silly.

#29 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,690 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

That conversation would start with Buxton, Sano, Meyer and Rosario. It would end with Ryan choking to death on the gum he swallowed reflexively. :)


And that's the best way for it to end. Stanton would be a great get... even a good buy low move, but he is not going to take the Twins from 90 losses to 90 wins. Buxton, Sano, Meyer, and Rosario on the other hand, will likely play a big role in that. I'm all for acquiring him, but I'm guessing the cost in prospects to get him will not be worth it. I highly doubt that the Marlins would take guys like Harrison and Walker, and those are the types of prospects I'd want to trade.

#30 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:11 PM

And that's the best way for it to end. Stanton would be a great get... even a good buy low move, but he is not going to take the Twins from 90 losses to 90 wins. Buxton, Sano, Meyer, and Rosario on the other hand, will likely play a big role in that. I'm all for acquiring him, but I'm guessing the cost in prospects to get him will not be worth it. I highly doubt that the Marlins would take guys like Harrison and Walker, and those are the types of prospects I'd want to trade.


When he said that, that was to answer the question 'what would it take to get Stanton AND Jose Fernandez'...not just Stanton. To me, with the exception of Buxton, we open up our cupboard and say, 'take any four prospects you want' and we'll take Fernandez and Stanton.

Edited by ThePuck, 11 August 2013 - 03:19 PM.