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Morneau at first

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#1 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:41 PM

I know it may be quite some time (if ever) before it happens but getting Morneau back at 1st base would really help this team settle in. I have to believe that was what Ryan and Gardy were hoping for despite how well Parmalee played this spring. Doumit would benefit far more from being DH (which was supposed to be the plan) and occasionally spelling Mauer at catcher, without having to worry about RF as well, I believe it would help him at the plate. Having Plouffe and Revere get more time in RF without working in Doumit would also help things. I like what Parmalee brought last fall and in the spring but if Morneau was healthy enough to play 1st during the spring, I wonder what the plan for Parmalee would have been?

#2 Montecore

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

Parmalee looks lost. Make the change.

#3 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:08 PM

If DH-ing Morneau will keep him healthy and he can recapture his offensive ability, keep him there. Doumit is probably a one and done here and has never shown a propensity towards staying healthy for a full season. Parmelee should play everyday if he's on the big boy's squad - he has done nothing as of yet to prove he does not belong here.

#4 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:19 PM

I agree that he hasn't done anything to not deserve being here and yes this is all risk aside when it comes to Morneau. My thought was, had Morneau proved to be healthy enough to play 1st base, where would Parmelee have fit in? Sometimes DH and RF? Not at all? Personally I don't think he was expected to make the big club and might not have if Morneau was capable of playing 1st the majority of the time. That's an OK thing really.

#5 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:35 PM

I agree that he hasn't done anything to not deserve being here and yes this is all risk aside when it comes to Morneau. My thought was, had Morneau proved to be healthy enough to play 1st base, where would Parmelee have fit in? Sometimes DH and RF? Not at all?

Personally I don't think he was expected to make the big club and might not have if Morneau was capable of playing 1st the majority of the time. That's an OK thing really.


I can only assume that Parmelee was slated for Rochester at the onset of Spring Training. Morneau, to me, just a simpleton fan, was never a guarantee and I must admit we have gotten a lot more out of him than I would have expected at this juncture. At the end of last season I was not sure he would be able to play again. He seems to be swinging okay and you take what you get. To respond to your question, Parmelee would be the RF. I think he is valued more than Revere for his speculated offensive prowess and on a team needing impact pop hitters you need to do your best to make it fit.

#6 spideyo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

Add to that the fact that Revere as a pinch runner/defensive replacement is probably worth more than Parmalee as a pinch hitter late in games

#7 spideyo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:05 PM

Parmalee looks lost. Make the change.


He's only played 2 games at 1b, and so far has done better defensively than the other 1b option Mauer

#8 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:28 PM

Parmelee will be a fine defensive player. He looks comfortable in the field and at the plate which is not common for a player with his lack of experience. He is a late bloomer and I believe will surprise people with his output. The reason he was drafted in the 1st round in 2006 was for his projected future ability. It is starting to take its form.

#9 CDog

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:35 PM

Parmalee looks lost. Make the change.


Have you seen him with a compass or something? Kid's played twice.

#10 CDog

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:44 PM

I agree that he hasn't done anything to not deserve being here and yes this is all risk aside when it comes to Morneau. My thought was, had Morneau proved to be healthy enough to play 1st base, where would Parmelee have fit in? Sometimes DH and RF? Not at all?

Personally I don't think he was expected to make the big club and might not have if Morneau was capable of playing 1st the majority of the time. That's an OK thing really.


Agree with Bark's response that had Morneau been ready to go at 1B even half the time, Parmalee starts in Rochester. This situation has been my biggest disappointment of the spring and season. Morneau healthy was huge. And it's not that I think badly of Parmalee so much as it has the domino effect of not having DH for Doumit and having to fight a bit to get him in. Not to mention, it just was a good feelling to have Morneau better to the point of doing it all. I am still holding out hope that he'll start taking a game a week in the field at some point. Then maybe two, etc.

#11 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8717]Parmelee will be a fine defensive player.

What makes you say that? Parm's future with this team is as a DH at best, there hasn't been anything in his minor league career to indicate he can ever be an everyday position player. He wouldn't be this year if Morneau was healthy enough.

And I like Chris Parmelee, just don't make him into something he's not only to be disappointed later.

#12 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:50 PM

Agree with Bark's response that had Morneau been ready to go at 1B even half the time, Parmalee starts in Rochester. This situation has been my biggest disappointment of the spring and season. Morneau healthy was huge. And it's not that I think badly of Parmalee so much as it has the domino effect of not having DH for Doumit and having to fight a bit to get him in. Not to mention, it just was a good feelling to have Morneau better to the point of doing it all. I am still holding out hope that he'll start taking a game a week in the field at some point. Then maybe two, etc.


I couldn't agree more, this team was put together with the intention of Morneau playing 1st and Doumit at DH. They are a better team with that scenario the majority of the time.

#13 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:56 PM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8717]Parmelee will be a fine defensive player.

What makes you say that? Parm's future with this team is as a DH at best, there hasn't been anything in his minor league career to indicate he can ever be an everyday position player. He wouldn't be this year if Morneau was healthy enough.

And I like Chris Parmelee, just don't make him into something he's not only to be disappointed later.[/QUOTE]

I guess I don't understand what you are seeing. He looks comfortable in field and he will get better as time progresses. You can't just snap your fingers and make a player a great fielder. The fact of the matter is that Parmelee is not a bad fielder and will improve. remember that Morneau was an awful defensive 1st Baseman and turned himself into an above average fielder. That takes some time. Parmelee is on the right path.

#14 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:39 PM

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8727][quote name='twinsnorth49']

I guess I don't understand what you are seeing. He looks comfortable in field and he will get better as time progresses. You can't just snap your fingers and make a player a great fielder. The fact of the matter is that Parmelee is not a bad fielder and will improve. remember that Morneau was an awful defensive 1st Baseman and turned himself into an above average fielder. That takes some time. Parmelee is on the right path.[/QUOTE]

Ok, it's only been 4 games, maybe not fair but your view contradicts most books on him. Morneau is much more athletic, Parmalee is no Morneau, now or later.

The fact of the matter is they can ultimately do better at 1st and still keep Parm's bat.

#15 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:53 PM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8727]

Ok, it's only been 4 games, maybe not fair but your view contradicts most books on him. Morneau is much more athletic, Parmalee is no Morneau, now or later.

The fact of the matter is they can ultimately do better at 1st and still keep Parm's bat.[/QUOTE]

What Books/Resources?

#16 Riverbrian

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:56 PM

Have you seen him with a compass or something? Kid's played twice.


Jeez thanks a lot... I'm Laughing so hard at that comment that my wife punched me.

It didn't help that she just took her clothes off getting ready for bed at the exact same time as me reading it.

#17 VodkaDave

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:27 AM

Parmalee looks lost. Make the change.


LOL, so we should go by his 11 PA sample size this year and ignore his stellar Sept last year?

Also, Parmelee is at worst an above average defensive 1st baseman, he is more than capable on that end of the spectrum to hold down the job. Ultimately it will come down to his bat, and honestly he deserves at least a month or two to prove he belongs for the long term (this season)

Also, as bad as Parm has been at the plate in this young season he still has the 5th best OPS on the team....let that sink in for a second. It's way to early to be "making changes"

#18 VodkaDave

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:29 AM

I couldn't agree more, this team was put together with the intention of Morneau playing 1st and Doumit at DH. They are a better team with that scenario the majority of the time.


Who exactly is Doumit/Parmelee blocking when they are in RF/1B. Plouffe? Hughes? Revere?
Please, it's not like they are blocking some can't miss guy on the roster.

#19 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:31 AM

Who exactly is Doumit/Parmelee blocking when they are in RF/1B. Plouffe? Hughes? Revere?
Please, it's not like they are blocking some can't miss guy on the roster.


No there is no can't miss guys in the way, just saying Doumit is better off being the DH and let Plouffe or Revere play RF, Revere at the very least is much better defensively and Plouffe likely would be as well. Morneau, when healthy is a better 1st baseman, if he was coming out of camp where did that leave Parmelee, RF? I don't think so.

I'm not saying make changes, it's a hypothetical question because as we all know Morneau wasn't healthy enough to play 1st base. My opinion is just that the team is better with him there and Doumit occupying the DH spot, which is what Terry Ryan and Gardy hoped would be the case from the beginning.

#20 tpb8

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:59 AM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8727]

Ok, it's only been 4 games, maybe not fair but your view contradicts most books on him. Morneau is much more athletic, Parmalee is no Morneau, now or later.

The fact of the matter is they can ultimately do better at 1st and still keep Parm's bat.[/QUOTE]

Morneau is more athletic than Parmelee? Yikes. If that's true that would mean Parmelee can barely move at all. Morneau is not athletic, he's just a good 1B & hitter. Parmelee is even money to end up just as solid at 1B as Morneau if he's willing to work as hard as Justin did. Let's get 25 games into the season before we start passing judgement on a young kid like Parmelee.

#21 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

[QUOTE=Bark's Lounge;8754][quote name='twinsnorth49']

What Books/Resources?[/QUOTE]

There's lots, The Baseball Prospect Book, The Scouting Report, Baseball America and plenty of articles as he has come through the system. He's average at best, maybe that's good enough.

#22 Riverbrian

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:47 AM

Parmelee was a 1st round pick with projected power. As he came through the system his stats were disapointing and didn't match the projections. Recently he has started to turn it on. The stats mean very little... the scouting reports mean very little. It's up to the kid and the situations that he is put into and how he does in those situations. I've seen too many players out perform their minor league stats in the majors and too many players under perform their minor league stats in the majors. I've seen bad hitters all of a sudden become good ones and good hitters become bad ones. With Parmelee it is way too soon to tell... I'm pulling for him. Based on last September... He showed that he can handle the low pitch and drive it a long way. Can he handle the high pitch after pitchers stop throwing him the low stuff. I'm looking forward to finding out.

#23 2wins87

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

This article is from a little while back, but it makes it pretty clear that both the Twins and Morneau want him to be playing first base again in the future:
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120401&content_id=27803664&vkey=news_min&c_id=min


He seems like he's feeling comfortable so far, might as well start easing him back into it sooner rather than later.

As far as Parmelee goes, I have to agree with tn49, don't make him into something he isn't. He's got a bright future, but more likely as a role player than a regular. Give him time to prove himself, but don't be surprised if opposing pitchers start picking him apart after teams start scouting him more thoroughly. Hopefully he can adjust quickly, but these things generally take time. Remember how Wilson Ramos struggled after exploding in his first two games? Parmelee's made it longer but did it September when pitchers are a bit more worn down and spring training where performance really doesn't correlate too strongly with the regular season.

#24 TwinsFanLV

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

[quote name='Bark's Lounge;8694]If DH-ing Morneau will keep him healthy and he can recapture his offensive ability' date=' keep him there. Doumit is probably a one and done here and has never shown a propensity towards staying healthy for a full season. Parmelee should play everyday if he's on the big boy's squad - he has done nothing as of yet to prove he does not belong here.[/QUOTE']

I posed this question on another thread and received no answers: What is the virtue of Morneau having 600 at bats on a team that loses 100 games? If he's healthy enough to DH, he's healthy enough to play 1B.

If Morneau's long term health and welfare are really at risk, why is he playing at all? I will hold no ill feelings towards Morneau or any other player walking away from the game to protect his long term well being.

I want the Twins to win, but not at that cost.

#25 StormJH1

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

No. Why does you need Morneau to play 1st base at this point? Nostalgia? Does it give you warm and fuzzy memories of 2006? The offense has been terrible through 4 games, but that has nothing to do with the decision to DH Morneau. Putting Morneau at 1B does nothing but free up the DH spot for somebody else, and none of them are going to be better options than Parmalee at this point. If Parmalee had an "awful" year, he could still hit 10 HR's with a crappy average. Are you going to get that from Ben Revere? I certainly don't want it to be Doumit, and Gardy wants him more as an emergency fill in at 3 positions anyway - if he DH's regularly, he can't come in and play a position. Morneau's last setback occurred on a defensive play that involved no contact. I don't even want concussions to be on Morneau's mind right now. He needs to focus on getting his swing and timing back without wondering if that last dive for a groundball or the accidental collision covering 1B might have just ended his career. So far, so good with his hitting, IMO. There was a play Parmalee made where he dove down the line, and I wasn't the only one who saw that and wondered "Crap, what would we be thinking if that were Morneau?"

#26 VodkaDave

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:17 AM

LOL, so we should go by his 11 PA sample size this year and ignore his stellar Sept last year?

Also, Parmelee is at worst an above average defensive 1st baseman, he is more than capable on that end of the spectrum to hold down the job. Ultimately it will come down to his bat, and honestly he deserves at least a month or two to prove he belongs for the long term (this season)

Also, as bad as Parm has been at the plate in this young season he still has the 5th best OPS on the team....let that sink in for a second. It's way to early to be "making changes"


Twins clearly should have made the change last night, Luke Hughes at 1st base would have had 2 triples last night.

#27 twinsnorth49

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

Twins clearly should have made the change last night, Luke Hughes at 1st base would have had 2 triples last night.


It's funny how this thread was perceived as a, let's kick Parmelee to the curb affair. My point was that, it was this club's strongest desire in the off season to have Morneau playing 1st base and Doumit as the DH, most of the time, so where did that leave Parmelee.

I didn't say he shouldn't make the team or that he didn't deserve to make the team or that he couldn't hit, merely wondering aloud and starting a conversation on where everyone thought he might end up if everything had gone by Ryan's original plan. I still don't think his long-term future is as the everyday 1s baseman but I'm open to him proving me wrong, I like the guy.

#28 VodkaDave

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

It's funny how this thread was perceived as a, let's kick Parmelee to the curb affair. My point was that, it was this club's strongest desire in the off season to have Morneau playing 1st base and Doumit as the DH, most of the time, so where did that leave Parmelee.

I didn't say he shouldn't make the team or that he didn't deserve to make the team or that he couldn't hit, merely wondering aloud and starting a conversation on where everyone thought he might end up if everything had gone by Ryan's original plan. I still don't think his long-term future is as the everyday 1s baseman but I'm open to him proving me wrong, I like the guy.


I don't think anyone including Ryan was actually counting on Morneau to come back and play 1st all year healthy anyways, who cares what there plan was on March 1st? By April 1st Parmelee had hit himself onto the roster one way or another. If hypothetically Morneau was healthy and playing 1st base currently I think you would see Parmelee as the every day RF since he has logged over 280 games at RF in the minors/majors.

Also his defense at 1st base is at worst above average, I haven't seen him in RF but I haven't heard anything negative about his play there.

#29 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:51 AM

Davey boy, I love it when you help the TD readers see the light as you have done for me so many times. I think we will see BIG PARM in RF tonight. Span CF Carroll SS Mauer 1B Morneau DH Willingham LF Doumit C Valencia 3B Parmalee RF Plouffe 2B Just my prediction for tonight's lineup.

#30 CDog

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

I think we will see BIG PARM in RF tonight.


I hope not...since they play a day game. Hehe. I picture him standing out there aimlessly in an empty park, lights off, looking confused.