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Where are we?

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#1 stringer bell

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:09 PM

Willingham is off the table because of his knee surgery, so possible position players who could be moved include Morneau and Doumit. All of the veterans in the bullpen could be on the table and starters Correia and Pelfrey should be available although Pelfrey's numbers are among the worst in the league and he's coming off the disabled list.

My guess is that someone in the bullpen will be moved and there's still a chance that either Morneau or Doumit (maybe both) are traded. After the losses to the Yankees, the Twins are pretty close to realizing they can't contend with the staff they have.

#2 Cody Christie

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:16 AM

I wonder if anyone will be moved. The Twins always seem to want to get back a good value for their players and I don't know if any of their available assets are going to bring back what they want at the deadline.

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:15 AM

I still think that Doumit will have more value that people think, especially to an NL team who can move him to DH for interleague games. I'm not expecting a huge return there either, but it could happen, especially with Pinto looking like he can fill that role sooner than later. Supposedly Pelfrey was going to get traded to Baltimore, so if his next start or two is decent, I think he'd get moved for something (not expecting much).

It's my hope that KC gets traded, and given his play, he could get flipped. I also would not be surprised in the least if TR gets an offer he cannot refuse for Perkins.

#4 JB_Iowa

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:26 AM

Tom Powers had a reasonably good summary: Tom Powers: Twins' trade chips falling wrong way - TwinCities.com

Color me disheartened.

#5 silverslugger

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:40 AM

Okay, I was reading a rather thoughtful and insightful article about the plight of the Twins situation leading up to the trade deadline and then I read this;

"Most of the trade speculation this season has centered on Morneau, a potential free agent. That's because he's such a good player he probably will be too expensive for the Twins to re-sign. n I read this..."

What? He's been a great player in the past. He's a "good" player now. The ONLY reason the Twins would have for not paying him in future years is because he may want GREAT player money and clubs, including the Twins, would only be able to pay GOOD player money. Plus, the Twins may choose not to give him a 2 or 3 year deal because he may block up and coming players including the already here Chris Parmelee.

Whatever you say Tom Powers, don't say the Twins can't afford Justin Morneau's next contract. That's just silly talk with all of the potential money coming off the books and all future players under team control for the next few years. Seriously!

#6 JB_Iowa

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:05 AM

LOL. I thought the same thing when I read that. But I thought his summary of where the Twins were at was pretty good other than that.

#7 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

I wonder if anyone will be moved. The Twins always seem to want to get back a good value for their players and I don't know if any of their available assets are going to bring back what they want at the deadline.


Well, if I remember correctly, the last time Ryan did a trade at the deadline, he traded away our GG caliber, .300 batting, leadoff hitting 2B for a box of rocks.

#8 LimestoneBaggy

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

Well, if I remember correctly, the last time Ryan did a trade at the deadline, he traded away our GG caliber, .300 batting, leadoff hitting 2B for a box of rocks.


Can we get a site-wide moratorium on mentioning this trade. Not because I mind Puck's usage of it to make his point, merely because it ruins my day (by the way, the trade was a box of minor league balls and a set up not-to-be named magazines).

#9 chopper0080

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

The closer it gets to the trade deadline, the less confident I am that we will make any moves.

Morneau, limited value, though I feel the Twins will ask for too muchas they will value him more than other teams will.

Doumit. I think the Twins like what he brings to the team and that he is under contact. I would like to see him traded, but I feel the Twins will be reluctant because of their perceived lack of C depth in the minors.

Correia. He isn't great, and who will want to give up much for a #5 SP who might not even factor into their postseason rotation. Again, I think the Twins will value him more than other teams will and prefer to keep his contract for 2014.

Willingham. Off the table.

Jared Burton. He has been terrible.

Glen Perkins. I don't think the Twins will get off of him for anything less than a great deal, and I can't see a team offering that to the Twins. Maybe it will happen, but I have a hard time seeing it.

In the end, I think the Twins want high upside players in return for trades and I don't see any of those being offered for the players we have to offer.

#10 old nurse

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

Well, if I remember correctly, the last time Ryan did a trade at the deadline, he traded away our GG caliber, .300 batting, leadoff hitting 2B for a box of rocks.

The traded away player was a de facto free agent, no longer playing gold glove defense.

#11 John Bonnes

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

Well, if I remember correctly, the last time Ryan did a trade at the deadline, he traded away our GG caliber, .300 batting, leadoff hitting 2B for a box of rocks.


I'm blanking - what trade is this? Are you talking about Knoblauch? I'ts been a long day. Am I being thick?

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

I'm blanking - what trade is this? Are you talking about Knoblauch? I'ts been a long day. Am I being thick?


Luis Castillo

#13 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

I'm blanking - what trade is this? Are you talking about Knoblauch? I'ts been a long day. Am I being thick?


Luis Castillo. A bad trade of a mediocre rental player.

In my opinion, the worst part of the trade was that the Twins acquired Son of Sal in the process.

#14 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

Also, I doubt Puck did that intentionally, but that reminded me of the awesome word filter back in the battle your tail off days of "Gold Glove Defense with a .300 average"

#15 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Luis Castillo. A bad trade of a mediocre rental player.

In my opinion, the worst part of the trade was that the Twins acquired Son of Sal in the process.


Bad enough to have Torii and Santana speak out big time against it. He didn't perform too poorly for the Mets either...especially for the remaining part of that year or 2009. Certainly better than our rotation of dregs at 2B.

Edited by ThePuck, 03 July 2013 - 12:53 PM.


#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

Bad enough to have Torii and Santana speak out big time against it. He didn't perform too poorly for the Mets either...especially for the remaining part of that year or 2009. Certainly better than our rotation of dregs at 2B.


luis-castillo(1).jpg

#17 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

For the Mets:

2008: -9.6 UZR/150
2009: -12.5 UZR/150

#18 stringer bell

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

I still think the Twins move a couple people. Someone from the bullpen, but not Burton who has lost all value, and either Morneau or Doumit. I think Doumit has more value than people think and that the Twins have someone they want to try "at the big league level" this fall.

#19 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:05 PM

The traded away player was a de facto free agent, no longer playing gold glove defense.


By that logic, why not trade Torii at that point too? It was his last year and they hadn't even made an offer to him at that point.

And yes, he wasn't a GG caliber 2B at that time, but still above average.

#20 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:06 PM

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4681[/ATTACH]


yes, a bad play for sure. like every player in the history of the game. buckner was a fine 1B, he'll always be known for the ball through the legs. he held the record for assists by a 1B until Pujols broke it.

Edited by ThePuck, 03 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.


#21 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:07 PM

For the Mets:

2008: -9.6 UZR/150
2009: -12.5 UZR/150


and for us? He had a positive UZR in 2007. He played the turf well.

#22 John Bonnes

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:09 PM

Ah, ok. I was baffled becasue he also traded Liriano last year. And I couldn't imagine getting too worked up about losing Castillo. Though I questioned it at the time.

I always wondered if that Castillo trade was one of the reasons Ryan retired. That year, the Twins were really in between seller and buyers, so he tried to walk a middle path and got ripped by the players. Twins were 7 games back, if I recall, when they made that trade.

#23 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:17 PM

Ah, ok. I was baffled becasue he also traded Liriano last year. And I couldn't imagine getting too worked up about losing Castillo. Though I questioned it at the time.

I always wondered if that Castillo trade was one of the reasons Ryan retired. That year, the Twins were really in between seller and buyers, so he tried to walk a middle path and got ripped by the players. Twins were 7 games back, if I recall, when they made that trade.


He was a productive player for us, we got nothing in return, and the players felt Ryan gave up on them. And yes, we were 7 games back, but we also were 54-51 and in third place. We had the talent on the team and we were playing decent ball at the time. It wouldn't have been unheard of to make a run then. I can see why the players were ticked off. I was too when it happened. It's not like now when we're 7.5 back, in 4th place and sitting at 36-44.

#24 snepp

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

Also, I doubt Puck did that intentionally, but that reminded me of the awesome word filter back in the battle your tail off days of "Gold Glove Defense with a .300 average"


That's "a gold-glove second baseman with a .300 average".

#25 birdwatcher

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

Yeah, we all lament the Luis whatshisname trade every day. We dumped a superlative turf-playing gold glove .300 hitter who would clearly not have declined drastically right away like he did had we just kept him. That darn Ryan anyways. He never does anything right.

That trade has been haunting us for years.

#26 JB_Iowa

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:26 PM

It wouldn't have been unheard of to make a run then. I can see why the players were ticked off. I was too when it happened. It's not like now when we're 7.5 back, in 4th place and sitting at 36-44.


Add in the fact that the players knew (or had to strongly suspect) that it was their last year together -- Santana or Hunter or both were likely to be gone.

(Although I always thought from what he said that Ryan retired because he just didn't want to deal with those situations).

#27 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

Yeah, we all lament the Luis whatshisname trade every day. We dumped a superlative turf-playing gold glove .300 hitter who would clearly not have declined drastically right away like he did had we just kept him. That darn Ryan anyways. He never does anything right.

That trade has been haunting us for years.


As always, in your never-ending quest to defend Ryan and the Pohlads at every turn, you missed the whole point. Did you even bother to go back to the beginning of when I mentioned Castillo and see the quote I was responding to? Something about how the twins always want quality back in trades towards the deadline. Name the quality we got back.

And yeah, that trade may very well have haunted us. Likely slammed the door on any chance of signing Torii that offseason or extending Santana with how ticked they both were with that trade of such a horrible player. Before Santana's injury is mentioned, there's no way to know if he would have gotten injured had he stayed and he did very well his first three seasons with the Mets, especially his first when he led the NL in IP, ERA and quality starts with over 200Ks

And we all know how Torii has done.

Edited by ThePuck, 03 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#28 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

As always, in your never-ending quest to defend Ryan and the Pohlads at every turn, you missed the whole point. Did you even bother to go back to the beginning of when I mentioned Castillo and see the quote I was responding to? Something about how the twins always want quality back in trades towards the deadline. Name the quality we got back.

And yeah, that trade may very well have haunted us. Likely slammed the door on any chance of signing Torii that offseason or extending Santatna with how ticked they both were with that trade of such a horrible player.


Yes, clearly we should have given Santana that 7 year contract he wanted, or that 90 million Torii wanted (when we had a cheaper replacement in house with Span)

Or are you implying that if we would have kept Luis around that Hunter would have taken our 45 million dollar LESS offer than the Angels? Or Santana would have stuck around on a huge team discount as well?

Give me a break.

#29 Kwak

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

Returning to the thread..."where are we now?" A full realization that this team is and was not (and won't soon be!) a strong team making charges to (much less through) the playoffs. OK, a near frame-off rebuild is what is happening--basically new everything. Trade ____, or_____, or even _____? Quite frankly I don't there is much that is actually tradeable. What/Who veterans that are suggested for trade have huge flaws. These veterans are likely better served to "put a better 9 on the field" than to trade them. True, the team could empty the minors of all of the top prospects--recall 2011? There was an outcry about watching minor leaguers, paying major league prices, in a brand-new stadium that was premised on having the money to put a good team on the field. It is an option--maybe even the best one--but it doesn't permit TV commercials with people singing "We're gonna win Twins, we're gonna score...".

#30 ThePuck

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

Yes, clearly we should have given Santana that 7 year contract he wanted, or that 90 million Torii wanted (when we had a cheaper replacement in house with Span)

Or are you implying that if we would have kept Luis around that Hunter would have taken our 45 million dollar LESS offer than the Angels? Or Santana would have stuck around on a huge team discount as well?

Give me a break.


The cheaper replacement in Span? The guy who didn't even follow Hunter because they went out and got another CF instead. A guy who only got his break that year cause of Cuddyer getting hurt.

We do know both Torii and Santana both asked why should they stay there if the team is always rebuilding. We know Torii wanted an extension before the 2007 season, a contract like Gary Matthews had just signed, and he wasn't approached according to him.

I like how you cut my quote to exclude the part about Santana and how he did and how we couldn't know for sure he'd have gotten hurt if he stayed.

I also didn't say for sure it haunted us as if it was 100% fact. So give me a break

Edited by ThePuck, 03 July 2013 - 01:40 PM.




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