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Kyle Gibson, Andrew Albers and consistency

andrew albers kyle gibson minnesota twins terry ryan
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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

Over the weekend Terry Ryan hinted to reporters that the next in line for a rotation spot may be the left-handed Andrew Albers:

But, if the Twins really needed a starter right now, they probably would clear space on their 40-man roster for lefthander Andrew Albers. who is 5-2 with a 3.01 ERA. He's the hot hand. ``Correct.'' Twins General Manager Terry Ryan said. ``He's pitching better than anyone we have down there. And he has for a month, it's not like one start.''


Is Albers really pitching better than anyone down there? Including Kyle Gibson? Here is just a cursory look at the pair’s numbers over the last month:

Albers (last six starts): 5-0, 38.2 IP, 32-to-10 K-to-BB, .267 average against, .730 OPS against and a 3.26 ERA (3.40 FIP on the year).

Gibson (last six starts): 4-0, 42.1 IP, 35-to-15 K-to-BB, .201 average against, .529 OPS against and a 2.55 ERA (3.29 FIP on the year).

Frankly, I like Albers. I was able to watch a few of his bullpens in spring training in 2012 and was very impressed by the movement on his pitches – particularly his fastball. He clearly throws strikes but does not miss a ton of bats (8% swinging strike rate). He deserves a shot at the rotation as much as anyone else.

What I don’t understand is this none-too-subtle jabs at Gibson’s consistency. Statistically, over the last month and change, his numbers have been superior to those of Albers. He’s pitched more innings, allowed a lower average and has an OPS 200 points lower than Albers. Lacking the personal attention of seeing Gibson pitch in person, I cannot say if he’s unable to location certain pitches or has been falling behind far too much that is unappetizing to the Twins’ brass.

It simply cannot be consistency that is keeping Gibson down – he has been at least as consistent as Andrew Albers.

#2 jm3319

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

I don't get why Gibson isn't up getting experience right now. Who cares if he is still inconsistent in AAA or if he struggles when he gets called up. Wins and losses don't matter this year. I'd much rather he gain big league experience for next year rather than use up his limited innings in AAA.

#3 cmathewson

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

The whole consistency argument is BS. What do they want? A shutout every game? Apparently that's what it will take to get Gibson up here this year. It makes no sense at this point because he's on an innings limit and he's well beyond the point of either Super 2 status or the extra year.
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#4 Winston Smith

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

Is Gibson getting Slamaed?

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#5 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:03 PM

The consistancy line is total BS. Why are Hicks, Arcia and Parmelee allowed at the MLB level when thay have still have rough edges?

Though to be fair I'm not too sure Ryan knows what OPS is let alone OPS against. If he did know and saw what the Twins current starters were posting he'd probably retire.

#6 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

Ryan had his favs & they get their shots while I more talented players who aren't Terrys favs are shipped out for various reasons

#7 fairweather

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

WOW .201 average against, .529 OPS against! I've been on the let's be patient Gibson isn't consistent enough team but those numbers tell a different story. I really don't think ANY member of the current rotation could produce that kind of success at the AAA level. Worley, the opening day starter, sure cannot.

#8 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

Ryan had his favs & they get their shots while I more talented players who aren't Terrys favs are shipped out for various reasons

Source?

#9 ashburyjohn

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:07 PM

Is Gibson getting Slamaed?


#freekylegibson

[SIZE=1]/ not "freeky leg i.b. son"[/SIZE]

#10 Boom Boom

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

Wow, if I was Gibson and his agent I'd be none too happy about being repeatedly passed over like this. Maybe he has those dreaded character issues that the Twins hate so much.

#11 twinsnorth49

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

Getting pretty ridiculous hearing them defend this nonsense, if I'm Gibson I'm definitely thinking WTF?

#12 silverslugger

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

There you go again Parker! Letting good old fashioned facts get in the way of opinions and scouting, or shall we say, bias.

Free KG!!!

#13 silverslugger

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:47 PM

Last 30 days stats for Twins starters:

P.J. Walters 3.23. ERA, 1.60 WHIP, 18 K's in 30.2 innings

Sam Deduno 3.26 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 15 k's in 30.1 innings

Kevin Correia 5.14 ERA, 1.57 WHIP, 20 k's in 28 innings

Mike Pelfrey 5.47 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 17 k's in 26.1 innings

Scott Diamond 6.68 ERA, 1.71 WHIP, 15 k's in 31 innings

Well, at least their consistent???!!!

#14 Oxtung

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:55 PM

6 weeks ago I was one who wanted to see more consistency out of Gibson. At that point he was literally Good-Bad-Good-Bad. Since then he has only had one really bad start out of his last seven or so. I think at this point I think he is capable of coming up and performing as well as any other pitcher.

That said, Albers is having a fantastic year as well. There is nothing wrong with Ryan acknowledging that. At this point he hasn't promoted Albers instead of Gibson or anything, he only replied to a question he may or may not have been prepared for. If another pitcher was needed who knows what would actually happen.

Lastly, whether Gibson pitchers 5, 50 or 150 innings for the Twins this year it changes nothing about next year. He is still going to open up the season with the Twins and , barring an injury or a Blackburnesque collapse, will have a spot in the rotation all season long. That will be his year to perform regardless of what he does or does not do this year. So while we might be itching for him to come up so we can "oooh" and "ahhhhh" at the pitching when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture this year means little for Gibson's career or the Twins future.

#15 robbie111

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:02 PM

I'd like to see the Twins trade Correia for whatever they can reasonably get for him and bring both Albers and Gibson up and run a 6 man rotation. Gibson and Pelfrey are both coming off of TJ and Diamond (elbow) and Deduno have both been injured this past year. No sense burning all of the arms up. Plus with the extra day of rest they might get further in the games and not have to rely on the bullpen so much. I know Albers needs to be added to the roster perhaps that would finally get Drew off of it.

#16 MWLFan

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

Could it be that Albers is underperfoming Gibson and the Twins know it, but they are not worried about his Service time? But if they admit that Gibson is not up here due to $$$'s they will be ripped for being cheap in some corners of the internet and will fester bad will in Gibson and his agent. So maybe this is just a PR dance that TR is doing for all our ameusment. I know they have not seemed to care about this issue with Hicks and Arcia, but is good pitching costs more premuim than that of good hitting? I know they say they would not let $$'s stand in the way, but you know he is so close right now why take a chance he could cost us a few more million down the road for about 8 to 10 days of time in June 2013. But on the other hand maybe they just don't like Gibson so much. Or they really believe that this collection of arms that are currently at the Major League Level give them the best chance to win. I hope it is one or two, becasue if they really believe 3 then we are all...for the next 5 years when they think Clete Thomas is a better alternative then Byron Buxton.

#17 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:04 PM

It would be one thing if they were jerking around a guy with "attitude" problems, but there is no way to come close to making up such a thing about Gibson. But he could certainly develop one if he watches Twins games and sees these guys get hammered the third time through the lineup all the time.

I have a hard time believing that there isn't still something wrong with Diamond. Maybe another DL stint is in order. And then Pelfrey. Both Gibson and Albers can be up. Then Gibson will hit his innings limit and one of them can return.

With Pelfrey, I know he seems to be improving, but I wouldn't mind seeing him pitch 7-8 inning games at AAA to see if it is a pitch count thing or if major leaguers just start to smack him around after they see him the third time in a game.

#18 SwainZag

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

If Correia isn't dealt at the deadline I would be honestly very surprised. If he isn't I would hope that the Twins tried their hardest and couldn't find a taker. I think they could grab a prospect or two from a handful of NL teams looking for an upgrade at the backend of their bullpen.

#19 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:07 PM

The thing with Gibson is the twins want and need him to pitch like a number 2 when he is called up, so if they still have things to improve with him, there is no rush. While I don't doubt he could "hold his own" now, I want him to come up and be a game changer in the majors, not just another mid to back end guy

#20 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

Mind boggling. I hope no one on the twins tries to explain any problems with Gibson next year being caused by lack of MLB experience. I admit to wondering why I root for this team, other than 45 years of habit.

#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:33 PM

Hey, I have a great idea.

Throw away any combination of Walters, Deduno, and Pelfrey and then call up both Albers and Gibson.

Radical thinking, I know. Craziness. Cats and dogs, living together.

#22 snepp

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

What I wouldn't give for a BYTO-style word filter for 'consistency'.

#23 jokin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

The thing with Gibson is the twins want and need him to pitch like a number 2 when he is called up, so if they still have things to improve with him, there is no rush. While I don't doubt he could "hold his own" now, I want him to come up and be a game changer in the majors, not just another mid to back end guy


The same could be said for Hicks on working on some things to be a more effective leadoff batter, switch-hitter and defensive centerfielder. Why doesn't Hicksie just stay down until he's a game-changer, too?

#24 jokin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:15 PM

What I wouldn't give for a BYTO-style word filter for 'consistency'.


There's an article waiting to be written, rank-ordering the Twins depth chart for "consistency", I'd wager that whoever writes that article will stumble upon evidence strongly suggesting that Kyle Gibson is, in fact, one of the most consistent Twins SPs.on that chart.

#25 jokin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:17 PM

Could it be that Albers is underperfoming Gibson and the Twins know it, but they are not worried about his Service time? But if they admit that Gibson is not up here due to $$$'s they will be ripped for being cheap in some corners of the internet and will fester bad will in Gibson and his agent. So maybe this is just a PR dance that TR is doing for all our ameusment. I know they have not seemed to care about this issue with Hicks and Arcia, but is good pitching costs more premuim than that of good hitting? I know they say they would not let $$'s stand in the way, but you know he is so close right now why take a chance he could cost us a few more million down the road for about 8 to 10 days of time in June 2013. But on the other hand maybe they just don't like Gibson so much. Or they really believe that this collection of arms that are currently at the Major League Level give them the best chance to win. I hope it is one or two, becasue if they really believe 3 then we are all...for the next 5 years when they think Clete Thomas is a better alternative then Byron Buxton.


Buxton on the 5 year plan?

We are not amused.

#26 Aaron Cross

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

Over the weekend Terry Ryan hinted to reporters that the next in line for a rotation spot may be the left-handed Andrew Albers:



Is Albers really pitching better than anyone down there? Including Kyle Gibson? Here is just a cursory look at the pair’s numbers over the last month:

Albers (last six starts): 5-0, 38.2 IP, 32-to-10 K-to-BB, .267 average against, .730 OPS against and a 3.26 ERA (3.40 FIP on the year).

Gibson (last six starts): 4-0, 42.1 IP, 35-to-15 K-to-BB, .201 average against, .529 OPS against and a 2.55 ERA (3.29 FIP on the year).

Frankly, I like Albers. I was able to watch a few of his bullpens in spring training in 2012 and was very impressed by the movement on his pitches – particularly his fastball. He clearly throws strikes but does not miss a ton of bats (8% swinging strike rate). He deserves a shot at the rotation as much as anyone else.

What I don’t understand is this none-too-subtle jabs at Gibson’s consistency. Statistically, over the last month and change, his numbers have been superior to those of Albers. He’s pitched more innings, allowed a lower average and has an OPS 200 points lower than Albers. Lacking the personal attention of seeing Gibson pitch in person, I cannot say if he’s unable to location certain pitches or has been falling behind far too much that is unappetizing to the Twins’ brass.

It simply cannot be consistency that is keeping Gibson down – he has been at least as consistent as Andrew Albers.

Albers has been doing a better job of pitching to contact. Isn't that what's most important?

#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

If nothing else, this is stupid for the message it sends to Gibson.

#28 johnnydakota

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

The handling of gibson is just Ryan preparing for arbritation, claiming hes inconsistant,
start claiming it now and save money later , attaboy Curly

#29 GCTF

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:50 PM

5-0 > 4-0. Case closed.

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:53 PM

I'd rather have Albers than Diamond. Seriously.
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