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Article: Rochester Recap: Kyle Gibson - The Good & The Bad

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#1 Christopher Fee

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:23 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...he-Good-The-Bad

#2 tjsyam921

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:17 AM

It is mind blowing the difference in his w/l outings. Twins definitely don't need another inconsistent pitcher. Hopefully he can string some strong starts together before he hits his innings limit.

#3 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:35 AM

Always an excuse. Next year we will read how he did not pitch much in the majors in 2013, and we just need to he patient and wait for 2015 to see the real Gibson.

#4 Chance

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:56 AM

He is averaging more walks in his wins than in his losses...? Correct? maybe he is trying to pitch to contact to much in his bad starts and trying to miss bads and get some swing and misses in his good starts? I don't know but it's interesting.

#5 spycake

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:33 AM

He is averaging more walks in his wins than in his losses...? Correct?

Actually, according to the numbers in the article, he has a slightly HIGHER walk rate in his wins than in his losses/no-decisions. Strikeout rate is similar too. And he's only allowed 3 HR all year. Hit rate is the only real difference, which obviously leads to more runs and losses.

And you will see similar splits for just about any player -- for example, Justin Verlander this year has a 2.82 ERA in his wins and a 6.55 ERA is his losses. Joe Mauer hits a lot better in Twins wins than Twins losses too. It's a pretty meaningless split when viewed in the aggregate.

I guess the frequency of wins (or win-quality games) is probably more important, and to Gibson's credit, 4 of his last 5 starts have been wins, with 2 or fewer runs allowed in each win. Not sure what happened with the 5 walks, but his BB/9 rate is still just 2.9.

#6 RJ Parallax

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:46 AM

I was at the Red Wings game and watched him pitch. He had a easy 1-2-3 first, struggled in the 2nd to find his command but was average the rest of the game. Needs a bit more fine tuning before he comes up....

#7 PseudoSABR

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:42 AM

Always an excuse. Next year we will read how he did not pitch much in the majors in 2013, and we just need to he patient and wait for 2015 to see the real Gibson.

Seriously? The implication of these types of posts aren't just that the Twins are incompetent in their player development, but that they are self-sabotaging. Which is utterly ridiculous.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

I never mentioned the Twins in that post.....no place did I mention the Twins. That post was about people on this board.....not sure why you assumed I was talking about the Twins.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#9 TwinsFanInPhilly

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:03 PM

More meaningless drivel from the most negative individuals

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:06 PM

More name calling, rather than discussing the actual post.......

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#11 TwinsFanInPhilly

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:12 PM

I never mentioned the you in that post.....no place did I mention you. That post was about people on this board.....not sure why you assumed I was talking about you

And by the way, you were talking about people on the board with your excuses comment, and not about the actual post, so maybe you should do some self reflection rather than pointing fingers.


#12 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:16 PM

I make more positive than negative comments, some people are just obsessed with the ones they view as negative.

We hear, every day, that certain players need time in MLB, then to be sent down, then to come back up to succeed. Or, that it helps players to get exposure to MLB games, that the 2nd year they are more comfortable. We've heard it on player after player the last couple of years. so maybe I'm just jaded on this topic, maybe I am being a bit negative here, but do you really think it won't come up next year? We won't be reading here that "he only got 5 starts last year, we need to show patience"?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we won't read that. Maybe I should not have assumed that. But every week we read a new reason why people here don't think he should be up yet. And, for those of us that want him up, it's tiresome for a new thread to be created every week explaining why he should not be up.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#13 PseudoSABR

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

I never mentioned the Twins in that post.....no place did I mention the Twins. That post was about people on this board.....not sure why you assumed I was talking about the Twins.

It's why I used the word "implication."

#14 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

But I was mot implying anything about the twins, that post was about this site, and how every week there is an article, or post, about why Gibson should not be up. It had zero to do with the twins.

#15 Winston Smith

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:53 PM

Gibson is at 80 innings pitched. With the Twins stated limit of 130 +/- he has about 8 starts left. If they really want him to see some action at "major league level" time is running out.

#16 h2oface

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

Half good and half bad............ sounds like he would be perfect for the rotation right now....... sure beats mostly bad........ and with a total ERA just over 3, how can that be worse than the 5 and 6's the Twins now sport? Time is running out with the innings limit. This is hard to understand.

#17 troyhobbs

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:03 PM

I think Gibson is MLB ready and should've been called up instead of Walters. However, Walters has been decent so I think once the Twinkies are officially out of it they can release Pelfry and finally give Gibson a shot.

#18 cmathewson

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:43 PM

He has been very good to excellent in four out of the last five starts. No Twin starter has been as consistent over the last month. All other measures they can cite constitute double standards. Walks? Look at Deduno.

#19 Riverbrian

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:06 PM

some twins fans need to get laid...might change your whole perspective on things. Yes i am implying that some are negative even when it doesnt make sense to be. She doesnt have to be hot...just hot enough to keep you from being such a$$h0les all the time. The bickering and twins hating is obnoxious and i for one am getting tired of it.


lol
A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

#20 amjgt

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

On the G&TG Weekly podcast they mentioned that this is the same team that Gibson recently shutout. I think that worth noting, but for a different reason that Gleeman was. Gleeman was implying that since he recently shut them out, this outing is a relative disappoinment (maybe that's too strong of a word).

I take a different stance. We've been hearing this year, as our super-prospects were tearing up their respective A-ball leagues that it's important for their development to have the pitchers see them for the second time and make adjustments. Only then will we get a true feel for their development.

Why can't the same go for pitchers? This Toledo team has recently faced Gibson, presumably developed their scouting report on him, more fully, and Gibson was still able to hold them to 1 run over 7 innings. Perhaps Gibson was able to get the Mud Hens to chase outside the zone on the first go-around. This game Toledo laid off those pitches and drew some walks, but ultimately Gibson was able to work around those walks and give his team a great chance to win.

#21 jokin

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

On the G&TG Weekly podcast they mentioned that this is the same team that Gibson recently shutout. I think that worth noting, but for a different reason that Gleeman was. Gleeman was implying that since he recently shut them out, this outing is a relative disappoinment (maybe that's too strong of a word).

I take a different stance. We've been hearing this year, as our super-prospects were tearing up their respective A-ball leagues that it's important for their development to have the pitchers see them for the second time and make adjustments. Only then will we get a true feel for their development.

Why can't the same go for pitchers? This Toledo team has recently faced Gibson, presumably developed their scouting report on him, more fully, and Gibson was still able to hold them to 1 run over 7 innings. Perhaps Gibson was able to get the Mud Hens to chase outside the zone on the first go-around. This game Toledo laid off those pitches and drew some walks, but ultimately Gibson was able to work around those walks and give his team a great chance to win.


Well-stated. If Gleeman said anything like this (which I'm sure he did), he's guilty of overanalysis and ridiculous expectations. What did he expect from Gibson for an encore? A no-hitter with 19 Ks?

Gibson is in his first full year coming off of TJ, it is a given that his performances should be somewhat uneven. Given that, I'm not sure if he's more uneven than the next "average" pitcher who never had the surgery- and Gibson's numbers aren't average- he's overall the #2 pitcher in FIP in the IL- even with the uneven performances.

#22 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:22 PM

Gibson is at 80 innings pitched. With the Twins stated limit of 130 +/- he has about 8 starts left. If they really want him to see some action at "major league level" time is running out.


Yup

He has been very good to excellent in four out of the last five starts. No Twin starter has been as consistent over the last month. All other measures they can cite constitute double standards. Walks? Look at Deduno.


And yup.

I fail to see why it's acceptable for Hicks, Arcia and Parmelee to fine tune their game and sand off the rough edges at the MLB level but not Gibson, and that's to say nothing of the non-prospects like Deduno, Walters, Hernandez and Escobar. This organization is strangely selective about who gets handled as though they were a delicate flower.

#23 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

I suspect it's a case by case basis, and the reasoning likely varies form case to case.

#24 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:20 AM

Except, as the Fangraphs chat reminded us last night, pitchers have a limited number of pitches in their arms, and when they are close to ready, they should be up, using those pitches in the majors, not in the minors. But apparently, the Twins do not agree. They own the team, nothing I can do about it.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)