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Ryan's pre season statements.

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#21 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

Or has the game just past him by?


Hmm... interesting thought, but I doubt it.

GMs and staff often are ridiculously optimistic at the beginning of the year because they think that is how you get fans to the ballpark. Unfortunately, when a team is as far from being competitive as the Twins are, it is little more than a fib.

I know Terry Ryan knows far more about Major League Baseball than I ever will, but he HAD to know this year was going to be tough and he misrepresented the team to the customers.

That seldom goes over well.

#22 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

Ryan provided a game changing theory to the game of baseball. He refused to trade prospects for vets and he demanded a high price in exchange for his vets. At the time teams were willing to make these moves because while clubs valued their very top young guys, any prospect that wasn't deemed elite was expendable and Ryan took advantage of other teams' "Win Now" mentality. This practice is widely adopted now which means he has lost his advantage. I don't know that Ryan has any other cards to play. He's too conservative and his hoarding of cheap young players seems to be the only revolutionary move that fits into his MO. The gig is up.


I'm not sure I'd go that far. The man built and runs an organization that knows how to scout players. He may not be able to pull off another AJ trade, but to say he cannot draft talent or still make good trades is a bit far off.

I'm not terribly keen on the "average fan" crap going around in this thread, but smart fans (and that should have included every one on this board) were smart enough to know that this was a rebuilding year the moment Span and Revere got traded... Why people are upset about that 40some games into the season is beyond me.

They are rebuilding. Next year's draft is strong... Another top 5 pick is going to make 2015/16 even that much nicer. May as well look forward to the future.

#23 Highabove

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:31 PM

It's just not the average Fans folks! Ryan promised the Season Ticket holders that he would do everything in his power to improve the Pitching Staff. Rebuilding or not, the Twins can and should have a better product. Ryan brings in the likes of Mike Palfrey on a trash can deal, and at the same time, millions of dollars are going back into Jim Pohlad's pocket. Lets not start the Straw man argument ( people are crazy if they think you can buy a pennant) The Twins had the resources to bring in better Pitching. This might have made the product more watchable. Over paying for better pitching might have been needed. My answer to this is SO WHAT!! How is the unspent millions helping this Franchise? In the past, the Twins have not carried over unspent payroll.

Edited by Highabove, 25 May 2013 - 02:59 PM.


#24 Joe A. Preusser

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:53 PM

I think they expected a lot better offense from Doumit, Dozier and Parmalee, and a little bit more out of Morneau, Willingham, and Plouffe. Doumit Dozier and Parmalee with 100 points more on their OPS, Morneau and Willingham about 50 points more, Plouffe about 25 points more and you would have the offense they envisioned.


None of this is unrealistic, and we would still be .500 if it had all happened. Very few Twins fans (even the die-hard pessimests on this message board) would be complaining if we were .500 right now.

#25 gunnarthor

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:09 PM

None of this is unrealistic, and we would still be .500 if it had all happened. Very few Twins fans (even the die-hard pessimests on this message board) would be complaining if we were .500 right now.


I'm not so sure, there seemed to be a lot of complaining when the team was 18-17.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:14 PM

I'm not so sure, there seemed to be a lot of complaining when the team was 18-17.


Because it wasn't hard to see that much of that 18-17 record was accomplished with smoke and mirrors. I was hopeful that the Twins would be a 75 win team but it was hard to envision them staying around .500 with Worley and Pelfrey stinking up the joint.

And once the magical pixie dust wore off Correia and the bullpen, we saw the true ugliness of this team.

#27 Thrylos

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

Yes. Just because they are casual fans does not mean they are brain dead zombies that can't remember the GM saying over and over again how competitive this team was going to be..


Fans who are listening to what the GM says before the season starts, are not casual...

Casual fans are the ones who worry more about who the hot dog vendor is at Target Field than who the opening day starter is for the Twins.

Casual fans just love Terry and Gardy, because they have seen their faces for a while and they love Gardy's commercials on the TV, while they cannot name the Twins' hitting coach. And if you tell them that it is Brunanksi, they never heard of him.

Casual fans do the wave, they do not make waves; and if the Twins do not win, just another minor oofda, especially if that cajun mac and cheese at the ballpark hits the spot...

Semantics

and unfortunately the Twins cater to those Casual Fans
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#28 JB_Iowa

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:51 PM

I think a lot of casual fans remember 2 90+ loss seasons and aren't/won't be happy if they realize that this one is heading in the same direction.

Even casual fans know that the Twins pitching has not been good for years -- this current group isn't doing anything to change that impression. And being lied to by management is worse than if they had just shut up or told the truth.

#29 Vespasian

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

I guess I would consider myself the very definition of a casual fan. I attend 4 - 5 games a year, usually with my family, and can rattle off a typical starting lineup, but I couldn't tell you how WAR is calculated if my life depended on it and I really couldn't name any prospects in the minors beyond Gibson, Buxton and Sano. In fact, this is my very first post on TD! One thing I do know - even as a casual fan - is that the Twins ended the season last year with a starting rotation consisting of Diamond and nobody and started this season with a rotation consisting of Diamond (whom I figured was due to regress, as indeed he has), and nobody. I guess I was intrigued by Worley, which in hindsight is obviously no credit to me. One thing I do know is that nobody, whether a hardcore sabremetrician or some random guy like me could have expected this rotation to be competitive despite what the front office said. But I guess I should not be surprised the front office was willing to lie to the general public when their idea of accountability was firing Jerry White. In fact, I am disgusted with the condescension of this organization towards its fans - casual or otherwise - who are paying the ridiculous ticket prices and buying the $5 iced teas. The unwillingness to sign even one legitimate free agent in what we all knew was going to be a down year - to give folks like me a reason to say, "hey, I might want to head down to Target Field to see this guy play" - has me very close to tuning out completely for the next few years. It's not illegal - they can do it this way if they want to - but they shouldn't be surprised that attendance is falling. I actually think there are a lot of guys like me out there. Not super hard-core fans, but not showing up for the "stadium experience" either and who have the ability to tell the difference between legitimate major league players and AAA wanna-bes. Why should I pay my hard earned money to watch this garbage? Anyway, great site. Glad I found it.

#30 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:48 PM

Anyway, great site. Glad I found it.


Great first post as well. I think you summarized where a lot of people stand.

This kind of sentiment is exactly what all the staunch Twins defenders should consider when they advocate whole-sale punting of this year and next.

#31 Badsmerf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:57 PM

There is nothing wrong with being a casual fan. If you stick around and read a little bit you can pick up a lot of knowledge pretty quickly. Thats how many of us learned more about the game. Also, many of us have been on internet forums for 10+ years now (some, the same message boards for that long). A lot of inside jokes and snark. Don't be afraid to post, state opinions ect., it only makes it easier to teach when someone's position is known. Have fun. Great site... meh, I'd call it good... lol.
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#32 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:47 PM

Ryan provided a game changing theory to the game of baseball. He refused to trade prospects for vets and he demanded a high price in exchange for his vets. At the time teams were willing to make these moves because while clubs valued their very top young guys, any prospect that wasn't deemed elite was expendable and Ryan took advantage of other teams' "Win Now" mentality. This practice is widely adopted now which means he has lost his advantage. I don't know that Ryan has any other cards to play. He's too conservative and his hoarding of cheap young players seems to be the only revolutionary move that fits into his MO. The gig is up.

Uh, no. He didn't.

#33 drjim

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:18 PM

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.

#34 Riverbrian

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.


More importantly... He'd also be crushed by the players because he just said publicly that these guys have no chance.

If I was owner and my GM said anything resembling no chance before the season started... I'd fire him on the spot.

Hey Escobar... You are on the roster but you have no chance of helping. Hey Pelfrey... I'm gonna spend a few million on you but you have no chance of helping.

I really don't get the expectation on this thread.

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#35 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

I don't see how it's any different to say "Well, I think we're building to the future" and limiting your off-season spending to Pelfrey and Correia.

Ryan had already said it figuratively. You might as well say it literally as well. The same argument works against players - I'm guessing Mauer and Morneau are "savvy" enough to realize this team wasn't going anywhere too.

So who in the hell are you hiding it from?

#36 drjim

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

I don't see how it's any different to say "Well, I think we're building to the future" and limiting your off-season spending to Pelfrey and Correia.

Ryan had already said it figuratively. You might as well say it literally as well. The same argument works against players - I'm guessing Mauer and Morneau are "savvy" enough to realize this team wasn't going anywhere too.

So who in the hell are you hiding it from?


True. After back to back 90+ loss seasons I think the players knew they were facing an uphill climb.

#37 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:49 PM

Right - so the fans are savvy enough to know, the players are savvy enough to know, and the front office damn sure knows....so why not just be upfront? All this mass self-deception does is make the inevitable collapse all the more bitter for many.

#38 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.


Of course I knew that the pre season statements were BS. Perhaps you should try actually reading the OP once.

My whole point is that there definately was something else he could say.

Please tell me what exactly is wrong with saying something like, "The organization is not where we want it to be, and I want to put a WS contender on the field. In order to do that we may have to take a step backwards to take two steps forward. We have a lot of exciting young players that will be coming up over the next couple years, and I really think the fans are going to want to come out and see the emerging talent that will define this team for years to come."

Frankly, I dont understand what is wrong with that type of honesty. They could do the whole, "get to know em" campaign all over again, and I really think it would go over a whole lot better than just flat out lying to the customer, which I think is very distasteful.
I'm simply not buying this 'there is nothing else he can say' theory.

#39 drjim

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

Of course I knew that the pre season statements
were BS. Perhaps you should try actually reading the OP once.

My whole point is that there definately was something else he could say.

Please tell me what exactly is wrong with saying something like, "The organization is not where we want it to be, and I want to put a WS contender on the field. In order to do that we may have to take a step backwards to take two steps forward. We have a lot of exciting young players that will be coming up over the next couple years, and I really think the fans are going to want to come out and see the emerging talent that will define this team for years to come."

Frankly, I dont understand what is wrong with that type of honesty. They could do the whole, "get to know em" campaign all over again, and I really think it would go over a whole lot better than just flat out lying to the customer, which I think is very distasteful.
I'm simply not buying this 'there is nothing else he can say' theory.


I never said he couldn't say something else. I'm just saying no matter what he said he was going to get crushed.

#40 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:29 PM

I never said he couldn't say something else. I'm just saying no matter what he said he was going to get crushed.


Why would he crushed for saying something to the effect of what I posted above? I disagree big time, I think he would actually score some points for the honesty.