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Great Article about Rick Anderson and the Twins' pitching philosophy

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#1 Thrylos

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

From Hardball times. Here and free (unlike you know whos)

Some really enlightening quotes from players, including Glen Perkins. Very Interesting...

And here is a quote (which hits the nail on the head IMO) :

Anderson’s downfall as a pitcher was partially attributable to his lack of ability to generate strikeouts (5.2 K/9 in 1,050.2 innings in the minors, 3.91 K/9 in 96.2 IP in the majors), so it’s understandable that he harbors some resentment toward strikeouts in general. They eluded him all those years; perhaps this is his way of getting back at the baseball world by doing everything he can to eliminate strikeouts from the game. Unfortunately, baseball has entered an era of increased strikeouts, leaving Anderson and his outdated philosophy in the dust.


And this from a national writer who is an objective bystander and unlike us, he does not care whether the Twins win...

Edited by Thrylos, 24 May 2013 - 04:55 PM.

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#2 jokin

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:01 PM

I concur on the dusty and outdated philosophy. Yet another reason why this organization cries out for the need of a complete culture change. And now they're trying to play catch-up instead of bringing in core competency to do it right.

#3 Willihammer

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

First thing I noticed about Liriano this year is he's bringing his hands over his head in teh windup - a perfectly viable timing mechanism that a lot of guys use. I wouldn't necessarily say that that was the missing key to getting Liriano to hit the strike zone consistently, but , I don't believe there is a single pitcher on staff who does this. Which would either be a heck of a coincidence or its something being forbidden at a high level. I would be curious to know the reasoning for it, and what other blanket rules are being enforced on Twins pitchers.

edit: Pelfrey does it too. Still, small wonder such a simple technique wasn't tried on Liriano at some point during his time as a Twin.

Edited by Willihammer, 24 May 2013 - 05:11 PM.


#4 Kwak

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:08 PM

You imply that the Twins have adopted Anderson's philosophy of pitching. But, I think it's the other way around--Anderson was selected to be the PC because he was Gardenhire's close friend and he agrees with this pitching philosophy--which comes from "on high".

#5 Highabove

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Does anyone know about Bobby Cuellar's philosophy?
He may be the Pitching Coach in waiting.

Edited by Highabove, 24 May 2013 - 05:16 PM.


#6 jokin

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

First thing I noticed about Liriano this year is he's bringing his hands over his head in teh windup - a perfectly viable timing mechanism that a lot of guys use. I wouldn't necessarily say that that was the missing key to getting Liriano to hit the strike zone consistently, but , I don't believe there is a single pitcher on staff who does this. Which would either be a heck of a coincidence or its something being forbidden at a high level. I would be curious to know the reasoning for it, and what other blanket rules are being enforced on Twins pitchers.

edit: Pelfrey does it too. Still, small wonder such a simple technique wasn't tried on Liriano at some point during his time as a Twin.


Very interesting. Let's get Jeremy for the video breakdown. Liriano hasn't pitched against any good-hitting teams, yet. But if he returns remotely close to 2010 form he will have to a prime contender for Comeback POY- and more egg on the face of the Twins philosophy.

#7 drjim

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

I will start by saying the Twins pitching philosophy is flawed and I look forward to it changing and I wouldn't mind seeing Anderson replaced after the season.

That said, that article was brutal. The guy came in with a conclusion and stated it throughout even though the specific examples/statistics he cited were inconclusive at best, and even some times contrary to the point he was trying to prove. With plenty of small sample sizes to boot. He used stats and analyzed them through his previous opinion.

His three primary examples are Liriano, Livan and Marquis. Liriano is basically unchanged since leaving, Livan got worse (probably because he was cooked), and Marquis got better (perhaps by moving to the NL?). And all three are cited as examples of the terrible influence of Anderson!
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#8 drjim

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:57 PM

From Hardball times. Here and free (unlike you know whos)

Some really enlightening quotes from players, including Glen Perkins. Very Interesting...

And here is a quote (which hits the nail on the head IMO) :


And this from a national writer who is an objective bystander and unlike us, he does not care whether the Twins win...


I don't think this writer is the least bit objective.
Papers...business papers.

#9 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

Well, for fun I'll take this article seriously:

So now we have a pitching coach bitter with strikeouts because he couldn't get them and a manager bitter at anyone that can both field and hit (especially middle infielders) and treats them similarly.

Poor Bartlett, he and others paid for the fact that Rafael Santana could get his OPS north of .600 from time to time.

#10 Oxtung

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

I agree 100% with the Dr. on this one. That author had an opinion from word one and let you know it at every turn. He dismissed the pitchers that didn't agree with his already formed conclusions and emphasized those that followed his desired conclusion. He freely admits he cherry picked. Just a bad article all around. Which is sad because I actually think his idea is a good one and I would be really interested in an actual analysis of Twins pitchers comparing their results here vs. elsewhere.

#11 drjim

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:42 PM

I agree 100% with the Dr. on this one. That author had an opinion from word one and let you know it at every turn. He dismissed the pitchers that didn't agree with his already formed conclusions and emphasized those that followed his desired conclusion. He freely admits he cherry picked. Just a bad article all around. Which is sad because I actually think his idea is a good one and I would be really interested in an actual analysis of Twins pitchers comparing their results here vs. elsewhere.


I agree. There is a good study to be done on this topic. This article is not it.
Papers...business papers.

#12 old nurse

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

The Twins could use a Radke. Nothing wrong with his pitching after his rookie year until his labrum went. Try as they may, the Twins never developed another like him

#13 Badsmerf

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:53 PM

I've been souring on Anderson for the last 5 years. It seems any pitcher with talent just can't get along with this guy. Slowey, Garza, Lohse, Liriano, and I think BOOF! even had some spats with him. I'm not sure Santana ever really cared what Anderson said because he was a Cy-Young winner and pretty much just dominated games. Kinda hard to screw that one up (unless he gets injured... whoops). I think its pretty clear Anderson's time here is over. If the organizational philosophy is changing to strike-outs, Anderson is not the guy for the job, and it is clear he doesn't know how to follow through with it.
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#14 Pius Jefferson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:50 AM

The problem with Anderson at this point is complacency and more of a personal opinion laziness. Perhaps he's tired of working with borderline starters who have no other choice but to pitch contact.

#15 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:02 AM

And this from a national writer who is an objective bystander and unlike us, he does not care whether the Twins win...


I have to admit, I'm not up on who's who in the field of baseball journalism. That said, I did a quick google search and came up with nothing on him. Can someone fill me in on his background? Is he affiliated with the traditional media in some way? Is he a blogger? Just how much credibility should I be giving him?