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#1 drjim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:35 PM

Getting the call for Monday per Jim Mandelaro. Gibson will have to wait.
Papers...business papers.

#2 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:39 PM

I'm a little surprised by the move. Adding two guys to the rotation that are out of options... though both guys cleared waivers after last season anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. See what sticks...

#3 Anorthagen

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

Reasons behind the desicion over Gibson were locigal, but not what I wanted to hear.

#4 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:43 PM

I wish Walters the best, but there really can't be any doubt about what the Twins are doing with Gibson at this point, can there?

#5 rikker49

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:48 PM

If not now, when??? Maybe if Pelfrey is released??? Gibson might be at his innings limit by then. Hopefully he would be called up before DeVries or Albers, but who knows. Maybe Blackburn lol

#6 Badsmerf

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:59 PM

Whatever. Deduno and Walters wont be in the rotation for long. I don't see how they can allow Hicks to struggle up here for this long while keeping Gibson down for financial reasons.
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#7 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:01 PM

90+ losses & firing of Gardy are on the horizons if this is true!!!!

#8 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:03 PM

which player is DFAd to make room? Benson/Hendriks/Hermsen/Drew???

#9 notoriousgod71

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

Gibson's agent should demand a trade.

#10 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

This intentional avoidance of a call up has happened many times but usually for the purpose of retaining an extra year of service. I don't know that there has ever been this blatent of a case of a team preventing a player from gaining Super 2 status.

Gibson is not a Major League player so I don't believe he is included in the playrs union as of yet. If he were, there certainly would be grounds to file a grevience. I don't think there has been a team in such dire need of a starting pitcher that continues to reject the most obvious and rational candidate to this extreme.

This is disguting and I hope Gibson doesn't hold it against the organization seeing as it boils down to his employer bending the rules and going out of it's way to withhold money from him.

#11 Physics Guy

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:20 PM

Has anybody thought that it might be as simple as Gibson being scheduled to start on Friday and that having him start on Monday might not be ideal. Obviously they aren't going to have him start if he pitches tomorrow. If they were to skip him tomorrow it could mess up his routine, which they probably don't want to do since he is coming off surgery. Call me naive, but sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

#12 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

Has anybody thought that it might be as simple as Gibson being scheduled to start on Friday and that having him start on Monday might not be ideal. Obviously they aren't going to have him start if he pitches tomorrow. If they were to skip him tomorrow it could mess up his routine, which they probably don't want to do since he is coming off surgery. Call me naive, but sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

There's a simple answer here, all right, but yours isn't it.

#13 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:30 PM

Has anybody thought that it might be as simple as Gibson being scheduled to start on Friday and that having him start on Monday might not be ideal. Obviously they aren't going to have him start if he pitches tomorrow.


He needs to start for Rochester on Friday? Why couldn't he just not start on Friday at Rochester and start for the Twins instead? That's when Deduno is scheduled so a promotion actually would have lined up perfectly with Gibson's current schedule. Or he could have not pitched for Rochester Friday and pitched for the Twins Saturday if they wanted to give him an extra days rest.

Sorry, but this non-move reeks and I hope Terry Ryan has to answer some very uncomfortable questions from the local media.

#14 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

Wonder how many good starts Vance Worley needs before he can get a re-call??
WHEN Deduno/Walters get DFA'd (June or offseason), will they will get claimed this time? We will have 2 starting P's & a SS that 31 other teams said no thanks to.
How many bad starts will it take till MN says goodbye to the terrible twosome??

#15 clutterheart

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:08 PM

Reasons behind the decision over Gibson were logical, but not what I wanted to hear.


Sure its logical. But it doesn't make it the right call. At this point the season is going down the tubes.

Not calling up Gibson shows that the FO indeed has written off the season.

#16 stringer bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:18 PM

This intentional avoidance of a call up has happened many times but usually for the purpose of retaining an extra year of service. I don't know that there has ever been this blatent of a case of a team preventing a player from gaining Super 2 status.

Gibson is not a Major League player so I don't believe he is included in the playrs union as of yet. If he were, there certainly would be grounds to file a grevience. I don't think there has been a team in such dire need of a starting pitcher that continues to reject the most obvious and rational candidate to this extreme.

This is disguting and I hope Gibson doesn't hold it against the organization seeing as it boils down to his employer bending the rules and going out of it's way to withhold money from him.

While I agree with you that Gibson should be recalled, I am not sure that it is so clear cut that he is the superior option at this point to Walters and Deduno, particularly Walters. Their statistics are almost the same and Walters has been more consistent. Obviously, Gibson has more stuff and upside, but perhaps a bit more AAA time could be beneficial for Gibson. If the real reason for the delay is avoiding Super2 status for Gibson, the Twins are cheap and foolish.

#17 Physics Guy

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

There's a simple answer here, all right, but yours isn't it.


Even if yours is the right one, we will never know. Unless of course you can read Terry Ryan's mind.

#18 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:54 PM

I wish Walters the best, but there really can't be any doubt about what the Twins are doing with Gibson at this point, can there?


Not to do any self-back-patting here, but this was an all-too-predictable move, right out of their worn and tattered playbook.

Meanwhile, other organizations have their prized players pitching as soon as possible, Bundy and Gausman in the case of the Orioles, we know all about the Nationals and Rays, even Porcello in the case of the Tigers (5 year veteran at age 24- yes Gibson had TJ, but he appears to be far beyond that surgery- Gibson at 25 is actually 14 months OLDER than Porcello- both drafted late in the First Round of their respective drafts, 2 years apart).

Edited by jokin, 23 May 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#19 Shane Wahl

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:48 PM

I would prefer Gibson being limited to a small amount of innings over the next month in Rochester than calling him up right now. Walters makes sense. Keep in mind that Gibson is going to be limited to 100 innings max for the rest of the season.

#20 drjim

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:09 AM

Not to do any self-back-patting here, but this was an all-too-predictable move, right out of their worn and tattered playbook.

Meanwhile, other organizations have their prized players pitching as soon as possible, Bundy and Gausman in the case of the Orioles, we know all about the Nationals and Rays, even Porcello in the case of the Tigers (5 year veteran at age 24- yes Gibson had TJ, but he appears to be far beyond that surgery- Gibson at 25 is actually 14 months OLDER than Porcello- both drafted late in the First Round of their respective drafts, 2 years apart).


Again I'm not sure Porcello is a good example to prove your point. And Gausman and Bundy have always been more highly regarded so the comparison isn't great.

That aside, this is disgusting. I didn't have high expectations for the season but doing something to potentially save a couple mil down the line is beyond words.

#21 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:12 AM

Payroll!
Lighten up Francis....

#22 jay

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:33 AM

Guys, a couple starts by Walters instead of Gibson is not going to be the ruin of the season. Their numbers are remarkably similar at AAA. It's not like Gibson has been blowing every batter out of the water and they are calling up guys he's been putting to shame.

Both Walters and Deduno are out of options and you wouldn't expect them to be on long leashes. Rolling the dice right now on a couple of guys who have flashed talent but just haven't stuck for whatever reason is not a horrible option for a team that drastically needs a better rotation not just today, but for a long time to come.

#23 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

There may or may not be good reasons for this, but it's hard not to believe this is money related at some level. That's the rub, if you generally act a certain way, it's hard for outsiders to believe that decisions are not made for reasons consistent with that way.

And, every inning in AAA is an inning not in the majors for Gibson. Fans want to see top prospects, not AAAA players. It really is that simple for me and for others.
Lighten up Francis....

#24 jay

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:45 AM

There may or may not be good reasons for this, but it's hard not to believe this is money related at some level. That's the rub, if you generally act a certain way, it's hard for outsiders to believe that decisions are not made for reasons consistent with that way.

And, every inning in AAA is an inning not in the majors for Gibson. Fans want to see top prospects, not AAAA players. It really is that simple for me and for others.


Both very understandable points.

Let's hope for the best here and then we can jump for joy when the Twins found a diamond in the rough. Otherwise, we'll see Gibson shortly anyway... although I think we will either way.

#25 Badsmerf

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

Guys, a couple starts by Walters instead of Gibson is not going to be the ruin of the season. Their numbers are remarkably similar at AAA. It's not like Gibson has been blowing every batter out of the water and they are calling up guys he's been putting to shame.

Both Walters and Deduno are out of options and you wouldn't expect them to be on long leashes. Rolling the dice right now on a couple of guys who have flashed talent but just haven't stuck for whatever reason is not a horrible option for a team that drastically needs a better rotation not just today, but for a long time to come.


Flashed talent? Are you kidding me? Deduno turns 30 in a month and Walters is 28. These guys haven't stuck because they don't have the talent. Don't give me the BS about Deduno's WBC results. They've been in professional baseball for almost 10 years, the jury is out of them. Each passed through waivers without a team claiming them because they aren't worth a spot on any other 40-man roster. The Twins are idiots. Neither of these two fit into the future. They should be bottom of the barrel, last option guys, which is essentially what they are. I have no problem with them getting starts (like in 2012) when there is no other realistic option. When you have a guy like Gibson who is even borderline ready, unanimously thought to be called up at some point, has the talent to be a pretty good pitcher, and pass him up for these two? For what? Saving a few million by avoiding super-2 (which, by the way, isn't a concrete time like avoiding arb). I hope Terry Ryan is fired.
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#26 UCLA_YANKEE_COLA

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

And, every inning in AAA is an inning not in the majors for Gibson. Fans want to see top prospects, not AAAA players. It really is that simple for me and for others.


Exactly. PJ Walters is not going to be on the next Twins playoff team. Kyle Gibson should be. This stinks.

#27 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

I would prefer Gibson being limited to a small amount of innings over the next month in Rochester than calling him up right now. Walters makes sense. Keep in mind that Gibson is going to be limited to 100 innings max for the rest of the season.


Right, so why squander them in Rochester? So now he's going to be limited to 11-12 MLB starts before being shut down in mid August? If the Twins want to pretend that they want to compete next year, you'd think they'd want him to get a little more experience this year.

#28 drjim

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:53 AM

There may or may not be good reasons for this, but it's hard not to believe this is money related at some level. That's the rub, if you generally act a certain way, it's hard for outsiders to believe that decisions are not made for reasons consistent with that way.

And, every inning in AAA is an inning not in the majors for Gibson. Fans want to see top prospects, not AAAA players. It really is that simple for me and for others.


Dead right on both points.

I would add that if the Twins were still floating near .500 I could accept this a little more but this is a farce on top of a fiasco.

#29 jay

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

Flashed talent? Are you kidding me? Deduno turns 30 in a month and Walters is 28. These guys haven't stuck because they don't have the talent. Don't give me the BS about Deduno's WBC results.


Wouldn't that just about be the definition of 'flashed talent'?

I guess I tend to take a bit of a longer view and don't see this as a terrible thing. These guys didn't embarrass themselves last year... Walters started well, but tailed off when it turned out he was injured. Their numbers basically match Gibson's this year and it's a last chance for both of them. They most likely won't stick, but there's at least a chance and this organization desparately needs SP for the long haul. I don't think many of us here thought we'd win 90 games this year. So why not? What's the big deal now? Because we were .500 after a month or so?

If Deduno or Walters stink, we'll see Gibson. If one of them gives up a 6.00 ERA for 4 starts before that happens and we assume Gibson would have been a 4.00, we're talking like a 4-5 run difference total. Hard to picture that costing us the playoff run that none of us envisioned in the first place...

#30 Badsmerf

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:35 AM

Wouldn't that just about be the definition of 'flashed talent'?

I guess I tend to take a bit of a longer view and don't see this as a terrible thing. These guys didn't embarrass themselves last year... Walters started well, but tailed off when it turned out he was injured. Their numbers basically match Gibson's this year and it's a last chance for both of them. They most likely won't stick, but there's at least a chance and this organization desparately needs SP for the long haul. I don't think many of us here thought we'd win 90 games this year. So why not? What's the big deal now? Because we were .500 after a month or so?

If Deduno or Walters stink, we'll see Gibson. If one of them gives up a 6.00 ERA for 4 starts before that happens and we assume Gibson would have been a 4.00, we're talking like a 4-5 run difference total. Hard to picture that costing us the playoff run that none of us envisioned in the first place...

Here is the problem. Gibson needs innings in the MLB to adjust. These two getting 4 starts, are 4 starts they are taking away from Gibson's development. I believe it is a poor choice by management to do this since it is unlikely Gibson will be pitching an entire season anyway. I'm not arguing that these two can't put together an acceptable couple of starts, there is just no reason they should be the choice over Gibson right now other than saving a few million in arb. If the idea is to sink or swim with a last chance audition then whatever, I just don't believe now is the right time for that or that either has earned another "chance."

How can guys like Walters and Deduno keep getting a "chance" when Slama has been shunned for 5 years (really, he's been in AAA with a >10 K/9 rate). ****ing irritating that they can't be consistent in their logic. If they don't feel Slama has the "stuff" when he has an extremely good K rate, how the hell do these two keep getting to tickle Gardy under the desk?
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