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Position player OPS ranking

hitting positions rankings stats
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#1 stringer bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

I used 100 plate appearances as a qualifier and used OPS as the measuring stick of hitting performance. Here are the rankings in the American League of the 10 Twins with over 100 PAs:

Catcher--Mauer--2nd of 14
First Base--Morneau--11th of 18
Second Base--Dozier--13th of 15
Third Base--Plouffe--8th of 13
Shortstop--Florimon--7th of 14
Left Field--Willingham--8th of 15
Center Field--Hicks--17th of 17
Right Field--Arcia--4th of 15 and Parmelee 14th of 15
Designated Hitter--Doumit--8th of 10

#2 Oxtung

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:53 AM

I don't know if he'll continue at his current pace but the Florimonster has been a pleasant surprise all around. If he can just be around average offensively he is a keeper for several years.

Morneau, Willingham, Hicks, Parmelee and Doumit have all been underachieving. By a lot. I is sad kitty. :cry:

#3 spideyo

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

Florimonster is both an awesome nickname, and a pleasant surprise. Can't say I expected Hicks to be very high in the ranks this early (curious, how much better would he have to be to actually be 16 out of 17?)

Dozier stands out as a significantly underachieving, especially when they are using him as leadoff guy. At what point do we figure Carroll or Escobar would be bringing more to the table as a starter?

#4 James

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:26 PM

Florimonster


Ha! The nickname might be catching on. I've been trying to get that going since Florimon was my "adopt a prospect" last year! Finally!

It's really not that surprising to see everyone in the position they are in though. I think Morneau is underachieving in the power department, but he's hitting for average and getting on base. The other guys... not so much. I think Mornie will get it going here soon enough, his numbers are at least encouraging.

Edited by James, 23 May 2013 - 12:27 PM.
forgot the first "o" in Florimon

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.


#5 Tibs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

I don't know if he'll continue at his current pace but the Florimonster has been a pleasant surprise all around. If he can just be around average offensively he is a keeper for several years.

Morneau, Willingham, Hicks, Parmelee and Doumit have all been underachieving. By a lot. I is sad kitty. :cry:


I don't see how you can say Morneau is underachieving. Yeah I would like to see some more power out of him, but he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI.

#6 old nurse

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

Is it then the hitting coach not doing a good job? As other threads want to blsme the coaching staff, how much of the poor performance is on the coaching?

#7 mcrow

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:42 PM

If Florimon had enough ABs to qualify he'd be top 3 in the AL, pretty impressive.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

Hard to say about the hitting coach, as he's been up here for less than 1/2 year.....so it's hard to offer any evidence about if players have improved or not under his tutelage.
Lighten up Francis....

#9 Oxtung

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:14 PM

I don't see how you can say Morneau is underachieving. Yeah I would like to see some more power out of him, but he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI.


That would be important if RBIs had any bearing on how well Morneau is hitting. But they don't. They are a function of Mauer's absurd .416 OBP hitting ahead of Morneau.

On the other hand OPS is highly correlated with runs scored, at least at the team level, and he is 11th out of 18th in OPS. In other words 10 of the 14 other teams have better hitting 1st baseman in the AL.

#10 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:24 PM

That would be important if RBIs had any bearing on how well Morneau is hitting. But they don't. They are a function of Mauer's absurd .416 OBP hitting ahead of Morneau.

On the other hand OPS is highly correlated with runs scored, at least at the team level, and he is 11th out of 18th in OPS. In other words 10 of the 14 other teams have better hitting 1st baseman in the AL.


On one hand, I don't want to 'like' this post cause Morny has been my favorite player on the Twins since he joined the Twins, on the other hand, anyone using RBI to rate a player needs to be shown the error of his ways. So a like goes to you.

In Morny's defense, he's hitting .347 with RISP so while he is getting a lot of Ops (Ops that Willingham should be picking up), he's at least coming through when he gets the chance.

#11 Tibs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:48 PM

I wasn't using RBI to rate a player. I said "[COLOR=#333333]he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI." He is hitting .378 in May, as well as .323 with runners on, and .327 with runners in scoring position. In what world is that struggling?[/COLOR]

#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:52 PM

I wasn't using RBI to rate a player. I said "[COLOR=#333333]he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI." He is hitting .378 in May, as well as .323 with runners on, and .327 with runners in scoring position. In what world is that struggling?[/COLOR]


Your point has merit. On the other hand, almost any mention of RBI on this forum will garner some rebuttals (as it should).

Morneau has been quite good lately. It's a matter of seeing if he can keep it up, with or without the power.

#13 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:53 PM

I wasn't using RBI to rate a player. I said "[COLOR=#333333]he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI." He is hitting .378 in May, as well as .323 with runners on, and .327 with runners in scoring position. In what world is that struggling?[/COLOR]


you say you weren't using RBI to rate him...but you only used two stats....one was RBI.

Look, I'm not going to slam Morny, at all...if you notice I defended him in my post as well by pointing out how he does w/RISP....but using RBI, as a stand alone stat (which is how you originally used it), doesn't work...at least not for me. It's like people talking about wins for pitchers.

You have since elaborated well, though.

#14 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

Your point has merit. On the other hand, almost any mention of RBI on this forum will garner some rebuttals (as it should).

Morneau has been quite good lately. It's a matter of seeing if he can keep it up, with or without the power.


Morneau in May looks like he's been using Mauer's quickswing batting tee- lots of short-swing blooping hits- not sure how the recent power drain that will play out with his value to prospective trading partners...

#15 stringer bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

Morneau in May looks like he's been using Mauer's quickswing batting tee- lots of short-swing blooping hits- not sure how the recent power drain that will play out with his value to prospective trading partners...

Justin Morneau has become Mark Grace. Useful on offense, good on defense, but not worth the $15M he is making this year. Both Morneau and Willingham have done little to increase their trade value other than stay in the lineup.

#16 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

Justin Morneau has become Mark Grace. Useful on offense, good on defense, but not worth the $15M he is making this year. Both Morneau and Willingham have done little to increase their trade value other than stay in the lineup.


Morny is making 14M not 15M, and I believe salary isn't just about what's done on the field. There are other considerations. Other than that, yeah...

#17 stringer bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

Morny is making 14M not 15M, and I believe salary isn't just about what's done on the field. There are other considerations. Other than that, yeah...

ESPN says $15M, Cot's says $14M. ESPN must be prorating the $6M signing bonus.

#18 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

ESPN says $15M, Cot's says $14M. ESPN must be prorating the $6M signing bonus.

Baseball reference also has 14M

#19 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:37 PM

Morny is making 14M not 15M, and I believe salary isn't just about what's done on the field. There are other considerations. Other than that, yeah...


Ongoing discrepancy on Morneua's contract amount, ESPN says $15M, BR says $14M- but down from the front-end $15M that Morneau got in the first few years of his extension, Cot's says Morneau has been paid $14M throughout the contract.

#20 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

Ongoing discrepancy on Morneua's contract amount, ESPN says $15M, BR says $14M- but down from the front-end $15M that Morneau got in the first few years of his extension, Cot's says Morneau has been paid $14M throughout the contract.


In any event, there's more to a player's salary than just on field production...

#21 Kobs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:18 PM

In any event, there's more to a player's salary than just on field production...


...if you're Ichiro.

#22 The Wise One

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hard to say about the hitting coach, as he's been up here for less than 1/2 year.....so it's hard to offer any evidence about if players have improved or not under his tutelage.

There are players are being labeled as underacheivers in this thread, so if they are not performing up to expectations what culpability does a hitting coach or manager have in that. There is another thread where it is blame the pitching coach

#23 Alex

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:43 PM

I don't see how you can say Morneau is underachieving. Yeah I would like to see some more power out of him, but he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI.


Because position matters. If he's the 11th best hitting 1B in the league, that means he's easily replaceable (or should be) with the contract he has. On the other hand, if he keeps hitting as he has recently he'll move up in that ranking. However, his swing still looks pretty bad to me, even if it is better than it was a couple weeks ago.

#24 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:57 PM

...if you're Ichiro.


I imagine Mauer fits that bill...and Morny.

#25 Oxtung

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:20 PM

I wasn't using RBI to rate a player. I said "[COLOR=#333333]he's hitting .314 and is on pace to have 117 RBI." He is hitting .378 in May, as well as .323 with runners on, and .327 with runners in scoring position. In what world is that struggling?[/COLOR]


No doubt Morneau has been hitting better recently. His .867 OPS these last 24 games has been good. However do to his terrible .628 OPS in the first 18 games his overall OPS is still below average. So, as others have already said, if he continues to hit better his value will increase but at this point he is underachieving for the season. I'm not all that hopeful going forward because over his hot stretch he has a babip of .407. That is unsustainable and both his BA and SLG will be affected when that comes back to Earth.

Look I will freely admit that I thought Morneau was going to have a comeback year. Obviously to be under achieving you have to compare it to some baseline. Mine was an OPS around .850. He is underachieving in comparison. If you didn't believe he'd have a turn around year then he is pretty much at last years numbers and so probably wouldn't be underachieving.

#26 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:33 AM

I'm sure Morneau is really going to start slugging soon though, because I was guaranteed that he would be back to the pre concussion form and would OPS north of .900 this year.