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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...4-Step-Right-Up

#2 Tibs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:13 AM

What kind of pitcher is Albers? I've read around here that he doesn't throw hard, but 40 Ks in 42.1 innings is solid. What pitches does he throw?

#3 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

I wonder just how much we are risking if Joe Benson is DFA'd. As Seth points out, he is out of options after this year, so unless he is ready to be on the major league roster for good by next year, we'll have to expose him to waivers anyway. And I am just really skeptical that he'll be ready by then.

I'm not saying that he might not recover and be MLB-ready, and we might look back and regret losing him, but it might just be too late for the Twins to benefit from it when he does finally put it together, thanks to the roster rules.

Edited by IdahoPilgrim, 23 May 2013 - 09:21 AM.


#4 mike wants wins

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

Why not DFA Wood, instead of 60 day DL? He's a reliever......any older reliever who is hurt should be a DFA candidate, frankly......

My order:
Devries - he doesn't offer anything that the other Rochester pitchers don't offer, really
Hermsen - see above
Butera - below replacment level, imo, replacable by other younger options that have not proven to be bad

I'd want to give Benson this year one way or the other, so I'm opposed to him. Heck, just trade one of their current relievers for whatever you can get, move up a buy from AAA that is on the 40 man.....there are lots of ways for a 90 loss team with little high end talent at AAA or AA to cull the 40 man roster. Lots.

#5 Willihammer

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

I'd guess that Sunday is Pelfrey's last shot.

#6 CRArko

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

I'd guess that Sunday is Pelfrey's last shot.


I think you may be right. Especially if Gibson does well in his Friday start.

#7 Wanklenuts

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:05 AM

Why not DFA Wood, instead of 60 day DL? He's a reliever......any older reliever who is hurt should be a DFA candidate


Because that doesn't really solve the problem. If they want to call up Walters or Albers they will need to 60 day DL Wood and DFA someone. Whether or not the the Twins expect anything out of Wood, there is no point in possibly losing him. If he gets healthy and they still need the additional roster spot, they can DFA him then. There is no benefit in making that decision today.

#8 spideyo

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

Pretty sure you can't DFA a player on the DL. Besides, from a roster standpoint 60 day DL is no different than DFA.

After Deduno gets added there will NOT be an open spot on the 25 man. Remember, Thielbar took Hernandez's spot.

My guess is that Thielbar probably gets sent back down, and they give DeVries or Hendricks a spot start call-up (since Gibson wouldn't be available Monday anyways) so they don't have to DFA a guy just yet.

A lot may actually ride on Plouffe. If concussion symptoms rear up bad on him, they likely aren't goin to take chances and he could end up on the 60.

It wouldn't surprise me if the twins are shopping Butera and Herrman around right now. They likely won't get much better than a c-level prospect or a AAA lifer for them, but there are always teams that are looking for catching depth, and better to get a few bench fillers for them than nothing at all

#9 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:09 AM

Why not DFA Wood, instead of 60 day DL? He's a reliever......any older reliever who is hurt should be a DFA candidate, frankly......

My order:
Devries - he doesn't offer anything that the other Rochester pitchers don't offer, really
Hermsen - see above
Butera - below replacment level, imo, replacable by other younger options that have not proven to be bad

I'd want to give Benson this year one way or the other, so I'm opposed to him. Heck, just trade one of their current relievers for whatever you can get, move up a buy from AAA that is on the 40 man.....there are lots of ways for a 90 loss team with little high end talent at AAA or AA to cull the 40 man roster. Lots.


DFAing Wood doesn't really address the issue since he won't be on the 40-man anyway when it comes time to make room for whomever. I think Willihammer and crarko are right, though, that if Pelfrey doesn't radically improve this weekend and Gibson doesn't completely suck in his next start, it will be Gibson, which will make DFAing anybody unnecessary (at least until the next roster move).

I agree with you that you keep Benson to finish the year - I had a chance to think about it after I posted it. There's still a chance he can pull it together. But I've still got this feeling he's not gonna pan out and be gone next year anyway.

#10 tjsyam921

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

Why can't they put Butera on the 60 day DL? He won't be back anytime soon will he?

#11 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

Why can't they put Butera on the 60 day DL? He won't be back anytime soon will he?


Because he is on the minor league DL, not the major league DL. He was on option assignment to Rochester when the injury occurred. The rules prohibit those on the minor league DL being eligible for the 60-day major league DL. Don't ask me why, though.

#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

I'd guess that Sunday is Pelfrey's last shot.


If the team is willing to demote Worley, they damned well better be ready to send Pelfrey packing as well.

#13 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

If the team is willing to demote Worley, they damned well better be ready to send Pelfrey packing as well.


Based on performance you are correct. The difference, though, is that Worley had an option available and could not refuse assignment. Pelfrey has enough service time that he could refuse assignment; you'd have to be prepared to give him his outright release (and eat the rest of his salary this year). I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but it does create a different dynamic than Worley's situation.

Edited by IdahoPilgrim, 23 May 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#14 Wanklenuts

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

I don't think Pelfrey would refuse assignment unless he thought someone would pick him up. In that case, the other team would pick up the salary. I really hope that money doesn't prevent a move.

#15 stringer bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

To summarize, the Worley option allows the Twins to go the entire Detroit series with an 8-man bullpen. The likely transfer of Wood to the 60-day DL clears space on the 40-man for Deduno, but if another player is added from off the 40-man roster to fill Worley's spot in the rotation, someone will have to be DFAed and someone will have to be sent to Rochester. Pelfrey could "solve" the 25-man issue by being ineffective his next start and accepting an option. The Twins could solve both the 25-man and 40-man issues by DFAing Pelfrey and outrighting him to AAA if he would accept that.

#16 troyhobbs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

It'd be an easy decision for me. Gibson up, he's a 1st rounder, fans want to see him, and he's on the roster. If someone's gotta go, I think Butera had his chances and doesn't have much that anyone would miss.

#17 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

I don't think Pelfrey would refuse assignment unless he thought someone would pick him up. In that case, the other team would pick up the salary. I really hope that money doesn't prevent a move.


I disagree. Pelfrey has no incentive to accept assignment. He gets paid his guaranteed salary whether he plays another day in the Twins organization or not. If the Twins seek to outright him to Rochester, I see him asking for his release (as he is entitled to do) and then seeking a position with another team, who would probably sign him to an MLB-minimum deal, leaving the Twins to pay the balance of his salary.

That's what happened to Marquis last year.

#18 Dave T

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

I vote to DFA Benson. He needs a fresh start (or a new line of business). We have better outfielders than him coming up, and he knows it.

I think we should keep Thielbar in the bullpen, not send him back down. Not all of those bullpen guys are worth keeping. Roenicke, I'm looking at you.

I think we should promote Albers for a week or two, until Gibson's Super-2 date is passed. It will be useful to Albers development, and we surely need some young pitchers to get better in a hurry.

I don't think Pelfrey is going anywhere. Twins management knew when they signed him that his first year back might be rocky. The price you pay is one bad year. The hope is, he regains his ability to locate pitches while he's under contract to the Twins.

#19 spideyo

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

You beat me to it. Marquis bailed out and got signed to the Padres where he had a decent enough year to come back for a second season.

And he was doing MUCH worse than Pelfrey is

#20 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

I don't think Pelfrey is going anywhere. Twins management knew when they signed him that his first year back might be rocky. The price you pay is one bad year. The hope is, he regains his ability to locate pitches while he's under contract to the Twins.


The problem with this, of course, is that he only has a one-year contract - next year he's a free agent anyway, unless we agree to an extension with him, and right now that just ain't happening.

#21 mike wants wins

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:25 PM

Because that doesn't really solve the problem. If they want to call up Walters or Albers they will need to 60 day DL Wood and DFA someone. Whether or not the the Twins expect anything out of Wood, there is no point in possibly losing him. If he gets healthy and they still need the additional roster spot, they can DFA him then. There is no benefit in making that decision today.


thanks, I read it wrong.
Lighten up Francis....

#22 jharaldson

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:56 PM

If the team is willing to demote Worley, they damned well better be ready to send Pelfrey packing as well.


A couple of reasons to be against this:

1. Improvement - Vance Worley had a 7.22 ERA in April and 7.20 in May showing no improvement. Pelfrey had a 7.66 ERA in April but dropped it 2 runs to 5.50 in May.

2. Injury - Worley had a minor corrective procedure to remove bone spurs last September which we haven't heard caused him any issue this year. Pelfrey is coming off of Tommy John and was expected to start the season weaker and get better.

I don't think his leash is super long but Pelfrey probably deserves another 4-5 starts before pulling the plug.

#23 snepp

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:02 PM

I don't get why Pelfrey "deserves" anything. Much like Pedro Hernandez didn't "deserve" to lose his rotation spot.

#24 ThePuck

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

A couple of reasons to be against this:

1. Improvement - Vance Worley had a 7.22 ERA in April and 7.20 in May showing no improvement. Pelfrey had a 7.66 ERA in April but dropped it 2 runs to 5.50 in May.

2. Injury - Worley had a minor corrective procedure to remove bone spurs last September which we haven't heard caused him any issue this year. Pelfrey is coming off of Tommy John and was expected to start the season weaker and get better.

I don't think his leash is super long but Pelfrey probably deserves another 4-5 starts before pulling the plug.


okay, what about Correia? Look at his May ERA.

As far as Pelfrey goes, he's basically had three good starts and a bunch of carp.

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:40 PM

I vote to DFA Benson. He needs a fresh start (or a new line of business). We have better outfielders than him coming up, and he knows it.

I think we should keep Thielbar in the bullpen, not send him back down. Not all of those bullpen guys are worth keeping. Roenicke, I'm looking at you.

I think we should promote Albers for a week or two, until Gibson's Super-2 date is passed. It will be useful to Albers development, and we surely need some young pitchers to get better in a hurry.

I don't think Pelfrey is going anywhere. Twins management knew when they signed him that his first year back might be rocky. The price you pay is one bad year. The hope is, he regains his ability to locate pitches while he's under contract to the Twins.


If you only do a cursory glance at their numbers, yes, Pelfrey has looked "better" (still awful).

But dig into the numbers a bit more and a different story is told.

Worley BABIP: .401 (incredibly unlucky)
Pelfrey BABIP: .368 (very unlucky but looks like a lottery winner compared to Worley)

Worley HR/FB: 15.5% (LOL, ouch)
Pelfrey HR/BB: 6.8% (absurdly low and will only trend upward)

Worley GB: 47.1%
Pelfrey GB: 40.1% (given that he only puts the ball on the ground four of ten times, expect many balls to start leaving the park)

All of that translates to...

Worley xFIP: 4.83
Pelfrey xFIP: 5.33

Worley has pitched very badly this season. Pelfrey has pitched worse, only he's slightly luckier than Worley. Nothing about watching Mike Pelfrey makes me think he's going to succeed this season. It was a good gamble but it was just that... a gamble. He shouldn't continue to get playing time if he continues putting up horrendous numbers while also magically avoiding home runs (something a pitcher has very little control over).

I'm not against the Worley demotion because he's pitching like crap, as evidenced by his mid-20s LD%. But he's not pitching worse than Pelfrey and Mike doesn't deserve a roster spot over Vance, particularly if he figures it out in Rochester.

If Hendriks was healthy, I'd be all in favor of kicking Pelfrey to the curb and giving Liam the rest of the season to prove his mettle.

#26 AScheib50

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

I live in Chicago, so I don't see a ton of games. I watch on MLB.tv if I am sitting by my computer but I don't sit down for entire games a lot.

That said, I wanted to throw this out and there and get a sense for what everyone else thinks...

All the BABIP numbers are out there...but the few times I have seen Worley...once in person at the Cell, in possibly his only good start, he seems less unlucky and more unimaginably hittable. I feel like at a certain point his BABIP isn't about luck as much as he's just getting crushed. Granted his BABIP will come down because that number is crazy high, but I have a hard time thinking that number is solely bad luck.

#27 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:04 PM

I wish Pelfrey all the best, but he is only under contract for this year.

This is a lost year. It was in March and we all pretty much knew that. Let the kids pitch and see if any of them can stick. I would rather see us getting our a$$ kicked while we are finding if any of those youngsters can make it in the bigs.

Frankly, I don't see what Pelfrey, or Correia for that matter, do for our future.

#28 jokin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:41 PM

I wish Pelfrey all the best, but he is only under contract for this year.

This is a lost year. It was in March and we all pretty much knew that. Let the kids pitch and see if any of them can stick. I would rather see us getting our a$$ kicked while we are finding if any of those youngsters can make it in the bigs.

Frankly, I don't see what Pelfrey, or Correia for that matter, do for our future.


This should be rephrased in the form of a question by the media, and directed yet again to the FO.

#29 Aaron Cross

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 03:51 AM

I'd give Pelphrey until Gibson reaches his Super 2 date (June something?). They knew when they signed him it could take half the season for him to get back on track. I'd love if he'd accept a demotion now though, and just go down for 3-5 starts. Call up albers or walters.

#30 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:23 AM

I wish Pelfrey all the best, but he is only under contract for this year.

This is a lost year. It was in March and we all pretty much knew that. Let the kids pitch and see if any of them can stick. I would rather see us getting our a$$ kicked while we are finding if any of those youngsters can make it in the bigs.

Frankly, I don't see what Pelfrey, or Correia for that matter, do for our future.


After getting over my initial frustration with the signings, my hope was they would pitch adaquate enough to fetch a couple low level prospects who would not require 40-man roster moves. Pelfrey has thrown that option out the window and Correia's honeymoon period is quickly fading.