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Now is it time to get rid of Anderson??

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#1 whydidnt

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:31 PM

We are approaching the end of May and it seems like every starter on the staff has gotten progressively worse as the year has gone on. Worley's start today is just the icing on the cake. We've had terrible pitching the last 2 years, and now this year is more of the same.

Ryan brought in the guys he and his scouts thought were the best for the team, right? So who takes the fall? If we are to believe Ryan, he recognized there was a problem last year and upgraded in the off-season, so it' obviously not his fault. Seems like now is the time he tell's Anderson it's no longer working here and we need to go another direction. Either that or he has to admit he was wrong and should have been more aggressive about bringing in more options to start for us.

At some point, someone, somewhere, in this organization has to own responsibility for how awful the starting staff is. Who is that person, and when are we going see a real effort to fix the issue?

#2 ThePuck

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:52 PM

Worley, Pelfrey and Corriea are most definitely Ryan's fault IMO. I'm no Anderson backer, but still..

#3 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

You want accountability? You can't handle accountability.....

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#4 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:33 PM

every Twins apologist knows that Rick Anderson is not at fault for the pitchers performing poorly.....he only gets credit when they pitch well. Now lay off of him

#5 adjacent

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:49 PM

The thing is, getting rid of Anderson is getting rid of Gardy, pretty much. I would think that if they are going to go that way, they will wait till the end of the season.

#6 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:54 PM

Corollary to how long before they get rid of Rick Anderson: How long before they bring Drew Butera back to the Twins?

#7 Kobs

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

I have no problem with getting rid of Anderson, but it sure shouldn't be because the staff has "gotten worse." These are bad pitchers pitching like they should, just like last season.

#8 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:26 PM

I wonder how much input Anderson has in who the Twins bring in and who they call up/send down. He's been around long enough that you'd think he has some influence right?

#9 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

I don't know... Something ain't right.

Execution is on the pitcher. Some pitchers are executing fine... Correia has been ahead of expectation thus far... Diamond was ahead of expectation last year.

Some are not... In total.. The problem is probably in a bunch of places from front office to Gardy to Andy to the player to luck.

Something ain't right... And if Worley and Pelfrey can't respond to Andy... Get somebody else to throw on that mound who is buying what Andy is selling.

If Andy is selling the wrong thing. I don't know.

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#10 Nick Nelson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

I have no problem with getting rid of Anderson, but it sure shouldn't be because the staff has "gotten worse." These are bad pitchers pitching like they should, just like last season.

I dunno, Diamond and Worley were both pretty decent last year, though it's unclear how much their offseason surgeries are affecting their current results. No one should be surprised by Pelfrey's ineffectiveness. As for Hendriks/Hernandez, your last sentence applies.

Personally I don't really hold Anderson accountable for the struggles of the staff but he doesn't have much ground to stand on at this point. Outside of maybe one or two success stories, he hasn't shown the ability to straighten anyone out over the last three seasons. Really starting to seem like his methods are outdated.

#11 silverslugger

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

What are Andy's methods? As I recall, back when the Twins were decent he was known as a guy who wanted pitchers to throw strikes and avoid walks. It sure seems like the Twins as an organization are turning from that philosophy, albeit slowly. Also, it seems most pitchers who have credited someone in the organization for assistance or a turnaround have credited Cuellar, not Andy. Is it a coincidence that Cuellar is in the big league clubhouse this season?

#12 Willihammer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

You just can't ask guys to go out there and throw cutters or fastballs to hitters 3 or 4 times a night. Its too predictable, too straight. The margin for error is too small. Most guys aren't Cliff Lee.

#13 drjim

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:32 PM

I can't imagine Gardy and the coaching staff survive a third terrible season, their fault or not. It's probably about time, 12 years is a pretty good run in any significant leadership position.
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#14 whydidnt

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:23 PM

I don't know... Something ain't right.

Execution is on the pitcher. Some pitchers are executing fine... Correia has been ahead of expectation thus far... Diamond was ahead of expectation last year.

Some are not... In total.. The problem is probably in a bunch of places from front office to Gardy to Andy to the player to luck.

Something ain't right... And if Worley and Pelfrey can't respond to Andy... Get somebody else to throw on that mound who is buying what Andy is selling.

If Andy is selling the wrong thing. I don't know.


None of us really know and I really don't think Anderson has much to work with, but...
Diamond and Worley are both doing MUCH worse than expected, Pelfrey has just been plain bad. I'd argue that Corriea is doing just what was expected, his peripherals are all very close to his career average - except he's walking 1 less per inning (made up by 1 more hit/inning) and he's Striking out WAY fewer - 1.3 per inning than last year. I'd say he's been lucky that more of the guys that he's let on base haven't scored - and his stats bring me back to Anderson. Why are his walks and K's depressed this year? Is that Anderson's influence? Don't know, but based upon the track record it wouldn't surprise me. The common thread among all Twins starters this year is the K/9 rate being worse than at any point in their careers. Either they are being coached to pitch to contact OR Ryan and his staff did an awful job identifying how these guys would pitch coming off of injuries. Either way, someone is responsible and it's time for the Twins to TRY to fix what is broken.

As far as guys not responding to Andy, isn't it his job to get the most out of players and to figure out how to get them to respond? How many guys need to not respond before you have to look a the coach?

#15 Physics Guy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:52 PM

Diamond is not doing MUCH worse than expected. He has 4 quality starts out of seven and his numbers are greatly skewed by his last outing. Prior to that he was at 4.08 ERA. Do you expect much better than that? His numbers last year are about his ceiling.

#16 whydidnt

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

Diamond is not doing MUCH worse than expected. He has 4 quality starts out of seven and his numbers are greatly skewed by his last outing. Prior to that he was at 4.08 ERA. Do you expect much better than that? His numbers last year are about his ceiling.

Well, he's given up 6 ERs in each of his last two starts, but before that I agree he was doing about what was expected. Look at the K's over the last 5 starts (in order) though: 5,4,3,2,0,1 - notice a pattern? Either he's got an injury we aren't hearing about or something else is going on with how he's pitching. If my memory is correct he was the worst LH starter in baseball last year when it comes to K/9 and he's a full strikeout+/9 worse this year.

I do agree last year was better than most of us expected, but by appearances he's going backwards - isn't he young enough were he should at least be stable or even improve slightly? Is it all on him? Is there an injury? Is Anderson beating him over missing on some pitches so he groves one every now and then? It must be one of the above, and it seems like every starter the Twins runs out there this year has the same problem. To my original point - Is Ryan going to blame himself or make Anderson the scapegoat? Someone is going to have to take responsibility, aren't they?

#17 spideyo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:32 PM

I think the next month or two is really going to make or break Anderson's (and possibly Gardy's) future with this organization.

No matter how good a coach is, he's still just a coach, he isn't out on the mound. He can't force a guy to pitch better, and nobody is deliberately sabotaging their pitchers.

The real test is how he helps players identify what needs to change, give them a plan to help change that, goals to aim for, and how he handles players that arent performing well and fail to make improvements.

I don't know how the decision was made to send Worley down, but it's very interesting that the announcement was made so quickly. I hope for the sake of the team that Andy is stepping up and being more bold and decisive with the staff. We'll see though.

#18 Mike Sixel

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:11 AM

If it is not a coach's job to make players better, no matter how bad they are, what is his job? I mean, if all we are going to say about Gardy and Anderson is that they have no responsibility when the players are bad, why not jus hire me to do their jobs?

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#19 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:05 AM

Just like with Gardenhire, I don't want Anderson to get the axe just so Ryan can defelct some of the blame, nearly all of which should be on his shoulders. Though, like Gardenhire and Ryan, I'm not so sure the modern game hasn't passed Anderson by. These guys all seem to prefer 1980's baseball which no longer exists.

On a totally unrelated note not at all related to this situation even in a little bit, has anyone noticed Liriano's start with Pittsburgh? His 1st two outings he didn't make it out of the 6th but was pretty dominant. He went seven and was dominant again yesterday. I wonder what got into him, he was always a slow starter in MN?

#20 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:06 AM

Everyone knows the pitching coach takes no blame for terrible pitching performances, it is obviously the bullpen coaches fault!