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Article: Twins Take a Hard Turn With Deduno

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:17 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...urn-With-Deduno

#2 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

Purely a money move made for Super 2 to save 500K(maybe) in 3 yrs
Twins (terry ryans) cheapness goes out for years....there is a reason they are the worst team in AL the last 3yrs

#3 Ibzakster

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:59 PM

RELAX people. The world did not just end. Don't go all Minnesotan on me. Deduno was effective last year and in the WBC. Glad he's here. Just say no to pessimism.

Go Twins!

#4 jokin

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:16 AM

Just say no to pessimism.

Go Twins!


OK, but can I at least say "maybe" to skepticism?

#5 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:43 AM

OK, but can I at least say "maybe" to skepticism?


Haha.
I like Deduno coming up. This will at least be something completely different.

Gibson will be along shortly. 'Cheap' and 'wise' are not the same thing, but can sometimes occupy the same space.

#6 old nurse

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

Gibson will get Pelfrey's spot

#7 TKGuy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

I don't think Ryan is being cheap, I am glad Deduno is getting a shot, he's the anti-Twins starter, wild and with K ability. Gibson's time will come shortly. Pelfrey or Worley will be removed from the rotation.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:00 AM

Every inning Gibson pitches in the minors is one less he can pitch at the MLB level this year. If they are both coming up, Gibson should come up first. heck, they should both be coming up right now, and Pelfrey should be gone. He won't bring back anything in trade, and he isn't going to help them win this year. There is absolutely no reason for him to be on the roster now that Deduno and Gibson are healthy, and they have Albers and other AAAA pitchers ready to go if needed. By the time Gibson is shut down, Meyer can come up. Not sure why this is not the plan right now.
Lighten up Francis....

#9 spideyo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:06 AM

It's not the plan simply because Gibson has been very volatile and inconsistent. This is a kid that they expect to be a solid part of the rotation for 5+ years. If he can't string together 3 back to back good starts in AAA yet, who does it possibly help to shove him into a higher pressure situation against exponentially better hitters?

It's not like a couple Gibson starts are all that's standing between the Twinkies and a title.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:10 AM

As opposed to Pelfry and his starts here? Or Deduno and his starts this year or last being consistent? he's going to be 26 this year, there aren't that many pitches left in his arm, frankly. Use them, or lose them. You really expect him to be super effective in 6 years, when he is 31/2? I don't.
Lighten up Francis....

#11 spideyo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:23 AM

I have no idea what Gibson will be like in 6 years. But I want him to be a solid piece next year, and rushing him up here so he can get shelled by Detroit helps no one.

#12 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:28 AM

I have no idea what Gibson will be like in 6 years. But I want him to be a solid piece next year, and rushing him up here so he can get shelled by Detroit helps no one.

If you're sure he'd get shelled by Detroit Friday, then there's not much hope he'll be a "solid piece" next year.

#13 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:30 AM

How is it rushing? If he's healthy at the start of the year, he's already on the roster. he's going to be 26 this year. How is pitching in AAA less impactful to his arm? Or are you suggesting he's not mentally ready?
Lighten up Francis....

#14 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

Career K% for the following:

Vance Worley - 18.5%
Sam Deduno - 17%
Kevin Correia - 15.1%
Mike Pelfrey - 12.7%
League Average in 2013 - 20.0%

Deduno is hardly a strikeout pitcher and the only reason he doesn't qualify as a "pitch-to-contact" pitcher is because he walks so many batters.

Edited by Brad Swanson, 22 May 2013 - 07:42 AM.
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#15 jun

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

Every inning Gibson pitches in the minors is one less he can pitch at the MLB level this year. If they are both coming up, Gibson should come up first. heck, they should both be coming up right now, and Pelfrey should be gone. He won't bring back anything in trade, and he isn't going to help them win this year. There is absolutely no reason for him to be on the roster now that Deduno and Gibson are healthy, and they have Albers and other AAAA pitchers ready to go if needed. By the time Gibson is shut down, Meyer can come up. Not sure why this is not the plan right now.

Deduno should be up first. He has been more consistent than Gibson. He had some success last season. He has been dominant in WBC against best hitters in the world. His weakness is that he is not as efficient and he could not pitch deep into the game. Gibson should be the next to be called up if he could be more consistent. Walters and Albers should also get their chance.

Edited by jun, 22 May 2013 - 08:39 AM.


#16 Nick Nelson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:33 AM

Career K% for the following:

Vance Worley - 18.5%
Sam Deduno - 17%
Kevin Correia - 15.1%
Mike Pelfrey - 12.7%
League Average in 2013 - 20.0%

Deduno is hardly a strikeout pitcher and the only reason he doesn't qualify as a "pitch-to-contact" pitcher is because he walks so many batters.


Career opponents' batting average / slugging:

Worley - .280 / .424
Deduno - .248 / .399
Correia - .273 / .430
Pelfrey - .287 / .419
League average in 2013 - .255 / .413

Deduno may not be a pure strikeout pitcher but he's legitimately tough to hit, and that's been true everywhere -- minors/majors/whatever. He might pitch to contact when he's not issuing walks but he doesn't pitch to hard contact. In contrast to the current suspects, that intrigues me. I also suspect he'll be above his career K-rate this year if he keeps throwing the way he has been.

#17 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:35 AM

At AAA this season:

Start 1 - 5.1 innings - 4 Ks, 4 BB, 5 hits, 0 ER, 100 pitches
Start 2 - 5.2 innings - 5 Ks, 4 BB, 4 hits, 1 ER, 99 pitches
Start 3 - 6.1 innings - 8 Ks, 2 BB, 5 hits, 4 ER, 93 pitches

He had little to no success last season:

6.5 K/9
6.0 BB/9
4.44 ERA, 1.544 WHIP
15 starts - 79 innings

The WBC was an exhibition and he made three starts, totaling 13 innings.

"Let's get after it." ~ Someone on the Twins, probably.
Kevin Slowey was Framed!


#18 ThePuck

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

WBC may be an exhibition to US, but the other countries are taking it serious, that's for sure.

#19 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

Career opponents' batting average / slugging:

Worley - .280 / .424
Deduno - .248 / .399
Correia - .273 / .430
Pelfrey - .287 / .419
League average in 2013 - .255 / .413

Deduno may not be a pure strikeout pitcher but he's legitimately tough to hit, and that's been true everywhere -- minors/majors/whatever. He might pitch to contact when he's not issuing walks but he doesn't pitch to hard contact. In contrast to the current suspects, that intrigues me. I also suspect he'll be above his career K-rate this year if he keeps throwing the way he has been.


Career innings pitched:

Worley - 322.2
Deduno - 84.2
Correia - 1123.2
Pelfrey - 936.2

I don't really have a problem with anyone being excited for Deduno. The argument that he was a better choice than Gibson doesn't make sense to me. And I do realize that Gibson's hasn't thrown an inning yet. Personally, I'd rather watch Gibson pitch on Friday.

Edited by Brad Swanson, 22 May 2013 - 08:47 AM.
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#20 jun

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

Gibson will get Pelfrey's spot

Walters should get Worley's spot. Albers should be the 6th starter.

#21 nicksaviking

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:53 AM

Haha.
I like Deduno coming up. This will at least be something completely different.

Gibson will be along shortly. 'Cheap' and 'wise' are not the same thing, but can sometimes occupy the same space.


Though usually when those two words are used in the same space, the rewards reaped are soley for the person being cheap and wise.

#22 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

Deduno should be up first. He has been more consistent than Gibson. He had some success last season. He has been dominant in WBC against best hitters in the world. His weakness is that he is not as efficient and he could not pitch deep into the game. Gibson should be the next to be called up if he could be more consistent. Walters and Albers should also get their chance.


Absolutely right--when Gibson throws back-to-back quality starts (which he has NOT done this year) he should be called up. While most people here think that Gibson is our next ace, I dont, I think he is our next Kyle Lohse who will give us a good game then a horrid one.

#23 nicksaviking

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:02 AM

[quote name='Brad Swanson']Career K% for the following:

Vance Worley - 18.5%
Sam Deduno - 17%
Kevin Correia - 15.1%
Mike Pelfrey - 12.7%
League Average in 2013 - 20.0%

Deduno is hardly a strikeout pitcher and the only reason he doesn't qualify as a "pitch-to-contact" pitcher is because he walks so many batters.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Nick Nelson']Career opponents' batting average / slugging:

Worley - .280 / .424
Deduno - .248 / .399
Correia - .273 / .430
Pelfrey - .287 / .419
League average in 2013 - .255 / .413

Deduno may not be a pure strikeout pitcher but he's legitimately tough to hit, and that's been true everywhere -- minors/majors/whatever. He might pitch to contact when he's not issuing walks but he doesn't pitch to hard contact. In contrast to the current suspects, that intrigues me. I also suspect he'll be above his career K-rate this year if he keeps throwing the way he has been.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Brad Swanson']Career innings pitched:

Worley - 322.2
Deduno - 84.2
Correia - 1123.2
Pelfrey - 936.2
[/QUOTE]

So the small sample size arguement only applies to people countering your point?

He is a strikeout pitcher, his minor league numbers show that. Unlike the the other starters, he can miss bats, so if he can start getting the 3-2 pitch over the plate his K% will go up. The other Twins arms don't have the ability to miss bats, and there generally isn't a solution for that. In other words, Deduno can improve on his K%, the othes cannot.

Besides, I'd take a walk over a hit any day. Runners don't advance as far.

#24 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:11 AM

So the small sample size arguement only applies to people countering your point?

He is a strikeout pitcher, his minor league numbers show that. Unlike the the other starters, he can miss bats, so if he can start getting the 3-2 pitch over the plate his K% will go up. The other Twins arms don't have the ability to miss bats, and there generally isn't a solution for that. In other words, Deduno can improve on his K%, the othes cannot.

Besides, I'd take a walk over a hit any day. Runners don't advance as far.


That is an absolutely fair point. You are right, he has a K/9 over 9 in 800 career minor league innings. To me, the second number says a lot more about Deduno than the first.

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Kevin Slowey was Framed!


#25 Nick Nelson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:15 AM

At AAA this season:

Start 1 - 5.1 innings - 4 Ks, 4 BB, 5 hits, 0 ER, 100 pitches
Start 2 - 5.2 innings - 5 Ks, 4 BB, 4 hits, 1 ER, 99 pitches
Start 3 - 6.1 innings - 8 Ks, 2 BB, 5 hits, 4 ER, 93 pitches

He had little to no success last season:

6.5 K/9
6.0 BB/9
4.44 ERA, 1.544 WHIP
15 starts - 79 innings

The WBC was an exhibition and he made three starts, totaling 13 innings.


Of the 14 hits he allowed in those three Triple-A starts, 12 were singles. Deduno will allow base runners but by and large they only get to first base.

Pointing out his high pitch counts is a valid point, but that's just a part of his game, and not one that differentiates him much from the current group. It took Hernandez like 100 pitches to get through four innings in his last start. Pelfrey is pretty much good for 20 pitches/inning. The difference is that Deduno might actually be effective while using all those pitches.

As for Gibson, he's had his issues with efficiency as well, and in his case it's more of a problem because the Twins will be far less willing to let him run up high pitch counts than a guy like Deduno.

I don't really have a problem with anyone being excited for Deduno. The argument that he was a better choice than Gibson doesn't make sense to me. And I do realize that Gibson's hasn't thrown an inning yet. Personally, I'd rather watch Gibson pitch on Friday.

No disagreement there, but for whatever reason -- whether it's consistency, service time or whatever -- the Twins aren't ready to give Gibson a shot. If it's not going to be him, Deduno is the best choice.

#26 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:16 AM

That is an absolutely fair point. You are right, he has a K/9 over 9 in 800 career minor league innings. To me, the second number says a lot more about Deduno than the first.


I like guys that can acknowledge other posts that counter their arguments. Nicely done.
Lighten up Francis....

#27 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:20 AM

No disagreement there, but for whatever reason -- whether it's consistency, service time or whatever -- the Twins aren't ready to give Gibson a shot. If it's not going to be him, Deduno is the best choice.


This is also true. I certainly prefer Deduno to De Vries or Hernandez. If Deduno can harness his stuff, I'll gladly admit that I was wrong.

"Let's get after it." ~ Someone on the Twins, probably.
Kevin Slowey was Framed!


#28 PopRiveter

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:31 AM

I'm excited to watch Deduno. I got my wish. I can wait for Gibson. It won't be long before his turn is up, but I feel like Deduno has paid enough dues and had enough success that he deserves a shot -and, holy moly, I do enjoy watching his crazy starts.
My favorite blogger disagrees with me, but he's living in a world where Scott Diamond is carried off the field after each victory, so we can agree to disagree. You'll get your wish soon enough, Brad.

#29 Brad Swanson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

I'm excited to watch Deduno. I got my wish. I can wait for Gibson. It won't be long before his turn is up, but I feel like Deduno has paid enough dues and had enough success that he deserves a shot -and, holy moly, I do enjoy watching his crazy starts.
My favorite blogger disagrees with me, but he's living in a world where Scott Diamond is carried off the field after each victory, so we can agree to disagree. You'll get your wish soon enough, Brad.


I tell you what, if Deduno proves me wrong (and I really do hope he does, I am a fan of the Twins at heart), then I will run out and carry him off the field. Someone will just need to kindly bail me out of jail.

"Let's get after it." ~ Someone on the Twins, probably.
Kevin Slowey was Framed!


#30 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

As I read through this thread, I see some parallels (imperfect to be sure) between comments about Gibson and the whole debate we had on Liriano last year. Both have/had the potential to be the best starter in the rotation. But in both cases consistency was an issue.

As a general rule, I prefer a pitcher who is perhaps a less electric but more consistent - that's why I thought it was a good thing to dump off Liriano last year and was glad to get anything for him. That's also why I would feel a lot more comfortable in promoting Gibson now if there was a little more consistency. Here are Gibson's starts this year -

4/5 - 5.0ip, 1ER
4/11 - 4.1ip, 5ER
4/16 - 6.0ip, 1ER
4/21 - 5.0ip, 3ER
4/27 - 6.2ip, 0ER
5/3 - 4.2ip, 5ER
5/8 - 9.0ip, 0ER
5/14 - 3.0ip, 4ER
5/19 - 9.0ip, 0ER

He has to be able to put at least two solid starts together before he's ready to face MLB hitters.