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Changes coming for the Twins?

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#1 Thrylos

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

I think that the writing is on the wall. And it will probably not be Gardy (yet) despite of this losing streak and what he said tonight in the post game show ("Correia pitched OK and kept the Twins in the game"). Might be one of his 3 buddies/stooges. We shall see

But methinks that they got to do something. 2+ years is getting too long. And they will probably clear house in the off-season, but with 45 people staying in the last home game, they better do something sooner.
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#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

Is there any doubt that if Hendricks gave up 4 runs in the first two innings we'd have heard about how he gave away the game at the outset?

My dislike for the Correia signing isn't lessening as he becomes the new pet with limited talent.

#3 stringer bell

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

Certainly some changes will be made. The team is playing poorly and very few position players are going well--Morneau is hitting (singles) and .........well Plouffe's been pretty consistent and Florimon continues to be okay--and the rotation is in tatters and the bullpen is overworked. I think they need to do something with the rotation first and at least two and possibly four guys should be on "super secret double probation"--Parmelee, Dozier, Hicks and maybe Arcia. I'd like to see the team keep three lefties in the bullpen, but that would be predicated on the effectiveness of Thielbar.

#4 ThePuck

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

I think that the writing is on the wall. And it will probably not be Gardy (yet) despite of this losing streak and what he said tonight in the post game show ("Correia pitched OK and kept the Twins in the game"). Might be one of his 3 buddies/stooges. We shall see

But methinks that they got to do something. 2+ years is getting too long. And they will probably clear house in the off-season, but with 45 people staying in the last home game, they better do something sooner.


Did Gardy realy say that in postgame?

#5 Kwak

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:46 PM

The concept of contact pitching and hitting is in tatters. A 3-run HR and the game was over. Unless there is a change in philosophy, with the Twins building with power hitters, and strikeout pitchers, this outcome will repeat many times.

#6 jokin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:17 PM

Did Gardy realy say that in postgame?


Words to that effect. No objective person could endure those first 4 innings and characterize anything in that performance which should draw a positive review. While he did hit his "hold the opposition to 4-5 runs..." part, he failed to meet the 2nd part of his TD-Certified, "Correia Suckitude of Success" standard, only giving his team 4, not "5-6", forgettable innings. Many of his pitches bore resemblances to a BP-friendly pre-game routine, like in the case of Uggla's HR. Other times it was clear he doesn't have any confidence at going right at hitters and mixing it up by coming inside- and resultantly, many of his pitches were fat.... or Phat!, if you prefer.

Edited by jokin, 20 May 2013 - 10:43 PM.


#7 Shane Wahl

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

Words to that effect. No objective person could endure those first 4 innings and characterize anything in that performance should draw a positive review. While he did hit his "hold the opposition to 4-5 runs..." part, he failed to meet the 2nd part of his TD-Certified, "Correia Suckitude of Success" standard, only giving his team 4, not "5-6", forgettable innings. Many of his pitches bore resemblances to a BP-friendly pre-game routine, like in the case of Uggla's HR. Other times it was clear he doesn't have any confidence at going right at hitters and mixing it up by coming inside- and resultantly, many of his pitches were fat.... or Phat!, if you prefer.


I saw only those early innings and not the Pressly-Thielbar innings, nor the Gardy comments.

I am NOT one for calling for a job, but for the past month this guy has driven me crazy. Making baseball judgment mistakes is one thing, but calling out players here and there for things and then covering up for players doing the same exact things is a MAJOR DAMN PROBLEM as someone who is, you know, LEADING A TEAM.

#8 Shane Wahl

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

Just as an addendum because I don't want actually start a dumb thread of speculation and other bull****, but I have to wonder if the addition of both Terry and Dougie was not a short-term and long-term managerial change by Terry Ryan and co. (and if anyone suggests Molitor, I am going to punch him/her). If it implodes this year, there is this bench coach is working perhaps more closely with the hitting coach than I have ever seen in many orgs. If things are fine this year but they go south and Dougie is already promoted to AA, then maybe that would be the option. Or even if things went well through 2014 and Dougie would be the option . . .

#9 jokin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

Just as an addendum because I don't want actually start a dumb thread of speculation and other bull****, but I have to wonder if the addition of both Terry and Dougie was not a short-term and long-term managerial change by Terry Ryan and co. (and if anyone suggests Molitor, I am going to punch him/her). If it implodes this year, there is this bench coach is working perhaps more closely with the hitting coach than I have ever seen in many orgs. If things are fine this year but they go south and Dougie is already promoted to AA, then maybe that would be the option. Or even if things went well through 2014 and Dougie would be the option . . .


Does anyone know for certain of Dougie-Fresh's relationship with Ryan? It seems like they must have parted on good terms in the trade to the Red Sox back in his playing days-- after all, to get hired, he booted "The Franchise's" brother out of a gig managing the best minor league potential talent in all of baseball.

#10 Shane Wahl

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:51 PM

Yeah, I was wondering about the Mauer move down to CDR. I mean, maybe doesn't mean anything other than the assessment of working with certain talent and that everyone is just getting a bump up next year (AAA management, in my view, is currently a damn joke). I would not be totally surprised to see Steinbach the manager and Dougie the bench coach within two year.

#11 jokin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:07 PM

Yeah, I was wondering about the Mauer move down to CDR. I mean, maybe doesn't mean anything other than the assessment of working with certain talent and that everyone is just getting a bump up next year (AAA management, in my view, is currently a damn joke). I would not be totally surprised to see Steinbach the manager and Dougie the bench coach within two year.


I would like to see it, hope they have the discernment to realize it's past time for a change in cultures. Now about that pitching coach change...does Dave Duncan have pitching proteges currently looking for work? I like Jack Morris, but I'm not sure if he's the right guy for the job.

#12 Seth Stohs

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:41 PM

Brad Steil was in charge of the Mientkiewicz hiring, though I'm sure he had to pass it by Ryan. Mientkeiwicz wanted the job, at least in part, because of Ft. Myers' proximity to his home. He gets to work with Sano, Rosario and Vargas.

I don't really see the Mauer move to Cedar Rapids as a demotion. There are a lot more prospects in cedar rapids than in ft. myers, so his responsibilities are no less this year than in hi-a. They wouldn't send someone they didn't have complete confidence in to manage the talent with the kernels.

#13 RodneyKline

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:53 PM

Terry Ryan not even trying to put a competitive team on the field is the problem. The only thing I blame Gardy for is allowing them to not give him a major league competitive team. This team doesn't need that much to be competitive. A real number 1 starter, a proven middle infielder and a CFer/leadoff hitter. He left about $40 million in potential payroll in the bank, so in my view, he never even tried when he has Mauer and Morneau in their prime. Two MVPs in their prime. Most teams push on the accelerator when they have two former MVP/Cy Young players in their prime but not Terry the cheapskate. I do not blame the Pohlad's. Everything I have seen, the Pohlad's will spend money if sold that they will have a winning team. They just don't want to spend money and lose and I don't blame them. Billy Smith was clueless but you have to hand it to him that he pushed the Pohlad's to spend $115m in 2010. We need a GM with TRs baseball IQ and BSs aggressiveness. He made horrible trades and horrible decisions but at least he was trying to win. TR seems to just want to spend the least amount per win.

#14 jokin

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:20 AM

Brad Steil was in charge of the Mientkiewicz hiring, though I'm sure he had to pass it by Ryan. Mientkeiwicz wanted the job, at least in part, because of Ft. Myers' proximity to his home. He gets to work with Sano, Rosario and Vargas.

I don't really see the Mauer move to Cedar Rapids as a demotion. There are a lot more prospects in cedar rapids than in ft. myers, so his responsibilities are no less this year than in hi-a. They wouldn't send someone they didn't have complete confidence in to manage the talent with the kernels.


All that is true, but didn't Jake have "super seniority", with time served in the organization, plus his own place in Florida and of course, his brother?

Seth, have you had any contact with Minty? I presume he would only take this job if he feels he was told he has a strong shot at getting back on the major league staff, ultimately as the manager.

#15 beckmt

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:07 AM

Expectations were low starting this year. That has not changed. They are bringing up the first wave and letting them play. That was the goal. Each of the next few years will be better. Be patient.

#16 MichiganTwins

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:08 AM

The point im trying to make is Gardenhire is one of the best GMs in the league and can make a team alot better than they really are. .

Nice, Gardy is the GM now. When did this happen?

#17 Thrylos

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:13 AM

You obviously dont understand baseball and where the Twins are at right now. Let me try to explain it to you.
......

The point im trying to make is Gardenhire is one of the best GMs in the league and can make a team alot better than they really are.

This years Twins team is the worst it has been in a long time yet they are only a few games behind .500. .


Whatever you say
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#18 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:19 AM

and if anyone suggests Molitor, I am going to punch him/her


Not if I punch you first.

paul-molitor-1.jpg

#19 clutterheart

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:26 AM

I think that the writing is on the wall. And it will probably not be Gardy (yet) despite of this losing streak and what he said tonight in the post game show ("Correia pitched OK and kept the Twins in the game"). Might be one of his 3 buddies/stooges. We shall see

But methinks that they got to do something. 2+ years is getting too long. And they will probably clear house in the off-season, but with 45 people staying in the last home game, they better do something sooner.


I know that some really dislike Gardy here - i don't - but even the fiercest Gardy haters can't blame this season on him.

Ryan left this team with bad starting pitching options and thin on CF'ers.

If the team stinks, its on Ryan. Not Gardy. Any manager would find it hard to win with this Starting Pitching Staff.

#20 John Bonnes

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:43 AM

I know that some really dislike Gardy here - i don't - but even the fiercest Gardy haters can't blame this season on him.

Ryan left this team with bad starting pitching options and thin on CF'ers.

If the team stinks, its on Ryan. Not Gardy. Any manager would find it hard to win with this Starting Pitching Staff.


Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."

#21 ThePuck

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:50 AM

Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."


As for having it both ways...

How about this: If Gardy can't take any of the blame for the last 2+ seasons, because he's been given so little talent, then he gets no credit for winning when we had more talent than any other team in our USUALLY (not always) very poor division...which was most of the seasons since he's been manager.

On top of that, how is it that his coaches took the fall this offseason, but he doesn't? Were those coaches not working with the same talent?

I'd also venture to say that season predictions by some took into account the manager we have.

Edited by ThePuck, 21 May 2013 - 06:53 AM.


#22 Thrylos

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:50 AM

I know that some really dislike Gardy here - i don't - but even the fiercest Gardy haters can't blame this season on him.

Ryan left this team with bad starting pitching options and thin on CF'ers.

If the team stinks, its on Ryan. Not Gardy. Any manager would find it hard to win with this Starting Pitching Staff.


Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?
Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.
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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:52 AM

On top of that, how is it that his coaches took the fall this offseason, but he doesn't? Were those coaches not working with the same talent?


His buddies did not take the blame (other than Liddle who said that we was going to retire.) It was all Stelly's and Jerry's fault...
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#24 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."


Nice strawman.

1. "We" didn't say this is a 70 win team. You might have.

2. Opinions on Gardy haven't necessarily been formed based solely on 40 games in 2013.

#25 PseudoSABR

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

We've never had thread like this!

#26 ThePuck

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:04 AM

Nice strawman.

1. "We" didn't say this is a 70 win team. You might have.

2. Opinions on Gardy haven't necessarily been formed based solely on 40 games in 2013.


Mine formed towards the end of 2007...

#27 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:24 AM

Hey, it's another fire Gardy thread! :banghead:

#28 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:30 AM

John, love your work, but you are wrong on our thoughts on Gardy. These thoughts are based on a decade of post-season futility, the inability to grow young players, the fact they do NOT do the little things well, these thoughts are based on a lot more than a few games in 2013.

His job is to coach, and help these guys do more things well than they did before they came up. Do you see that? I don't. I don't see a team that has done the little things well in years (and Seth and Howard have been typing that for at least 2 years). I don't see a manager that nurtures his young talent, and helps them grow. I don't see a guy that understand shifts. I don't see a guy that understands that the save is a stupid stat that influences his behavior in bad wasy. I don't see a guy that can change as the game around him changes at all.

Oh, and it is not all his fault. The GM has decided that NOT spending money is the way to win, and saddled him with an awful pitching staff, among other issues.
Lighten up Francis....

#29 jun

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:38 AM

Definitely not Arcia. Parmelee and Hicks should be replaced by Colabello and Richardson. Dozier could be replaced James Beresford.

Edited by jun, 21 May 2013 - 07:41 AM.


#30 mike wants wins

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:42 AM

As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?
Lighten up Francis....