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Game Thread: Twins @ Indians, 5/4 - 12:05pm

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#1 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 08:00 AM

Lineups:

Twins:
Brian Dozier 2B
Joe Mauer DH
Josh Willingham LF
Justin Morneau 1B
Trevor Plouffe 3B
Ryan Doumit C
Chris Parmelee RF
Aaron Hicks CF
Pedro Florimon SS
(Kevin Correia P)

Indians:
Michael Brantley LF
Jason Kipnis 2B
Asdrubal Cabrera SS
Nick Swisher DH
Mark Reynolds 1B
Carlos Santana C
Lonnie Chisenhall 3B
Drew Stubbs CF
Ezequiel Carrera RF
(Scott Kazmir P)

#2 Badsmerf

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 08:49 AM

Wrong date homey.
Do or do not. There is no try.

#3 snepp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 08:54 AM

Fixed.

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#4 ashburyjohn

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

Probably will miss this game, but good luck to KC and his band.

#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

Wrong date homey.


Last night's game was crap. This thread is my formal protest.

#6 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

fixed.


khhhhaaaaaaannnn!!!!

#7 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:45 AM

If the Twins are going to wi a game in this series, this is it. Correia has pitched way over his head and Kazmir has been several forms of awful thus far.

#8 snepp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

If the Twins are going to wi a game in this series, this is it. Correia has pitched way over his head and Kazmir has been several forms of awful thus far.


So you're saying the Twins are going to get blown out today?

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#9 snepp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

Hopefully that's the last time KC's homerun regression continues for today.

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#10 snepp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

Hopefully that's the last time KC's homerun regression continues for today.


Jerk.

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#11 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

On Kipnis...

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

Framing pitches matters.

#12 Danchat

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

Commence the Correia meltdown!

#13 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

On Kipnis...

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

Framing pitches matters.

Pitch 3 was outside. Pitch 4 was low.

#14 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:32 AM

Look at pitch 1 in Doumit's at bat called a strike. Much more off the plate than pitch 3 to Kipnis. Called a strike. Pitch 4 was in the zone.

#15 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

Look at pitch 1 in Doumit's at bat called a strike. Much more off the plate than pitch 3 to Kipnis. Called a strike. Pitch 4 was in the zone.

That seems to be a matter of opinion, not fact.

#16 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:42 AM

Was pitch 5 to Dozier also a matter of opinion?

That strike call mattered.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

On Kipnis...

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

Framing pitches matters.


I agree that pitch framing matters but you're speculating wildly and presenting it as fact. You can't just assume that a catcher can will a pitch into being called a strike. Ultimately, the umpire is the one who makes that decision. The catcher can do his damned to influence that decision but that's a hell of a long way from actually getting the call.

#18 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.

#19 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:54 AM

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.


Again, I said "influence". You said "would". It's not hard to see the difference between those two thought processes.

I've seen some great defensive catchers get a ball called dead red down the middle and some truly awful catchers get a shoulder high strike call. Pitch framing is about trends in sample sizes. Pointing out specific pitches and asserting that a better/worse catcher would have received a different call is the height of folly.

The umpire's zone has faaaaaar more influence than the catcher's ability to get a call on the black. There isn't only one variable at play in this situation and casting all weight to one element of the equation is just wrong.

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.

More accurately, why does one interpretation of available data--using pitch f/x, which we do not know to be accurate--indicate some catchers get more strike calls around the edge of the zone.