Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Cheers to Jason Collins

  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#21 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 23,258 posts

Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

I always chuckle when any religion says some sins should be against the law, because they are sins, but other sins, not so much. There has to be more to it than just sin to be agains the law, otherwise liars would be in prison.....heck, just coveting your neighbors wife inside your head without even doing anything about it would put you in jail. Those ones were supposedly written by lightning onto tablets for all to see, yet no one wants to make those against the law.....*

*well, no one in the US that has any influence anyway

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#22 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:36 PM

A 34 year old who averaged a point a game and has no contract next year is kind of putting the league in a bad spot. Still don't know of a single pro athlete who has declared there straightness. Just seems kind of selfish to use this in an attempt to get a job next year, why not do it at 29 or after you retire?

#23 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,804 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:52 AM

A 34 year old who averaged a point a game and has no contract next year is kind of putting the league in a bad spot. Still don't know of a single pro athlete who has declared there straightness.


You have to be kidding me. Collins has put the LEAGUE in a bad spot? Oh, poor NBA. I don't know how they'll cope, knowing that a gay man is prancing up and down their courts three times a week.

As for declaring straightness...

/facepalm

Collins did this at exactly the right time. He's nearing the end of his career. He won't have too many ugly road games in front of him but the point is still made... He's an active professional athlete who has publicly declared his homosexuality. There's a reason this has never happened. Athletes are scared to do it because of public backlash in an arena of society that isn't known for its progressive thought processes.

#24 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:23 PM

You have to be kidding me. Collins has put the LEAGUE in a bad spot? Oh, poor NBA. I don't know how they'll cope, knowing that a gay man is prancing up and down their courts three times a week.

As for declaring straightness...

/facepalm

Collins did this at exactly the right time. He's nearing the end of his career.


That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.

#25 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:30 PM

By the way the idea that he or even a star player would have to deal with half of what Jackie Robinson dealt with is dumb at best. We as a society are fine with homosexuals. That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.

#26 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,642 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:32 PM

By the way the idea that he or even a star player would have to deal with half of what Jackie Robinson dealt with is dumb at best. We as a society are fine with homosexuals. That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.


Not sure what society you're a part of, but that's not true of much of society and CERTAINLY is not true in the society of professional male athletes who are active in their sport.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#27 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,804 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:36 PM

We as a society are fine with homosexuals.


Yeah, that's not true at all. Not even a little bit. If society was fine with homosexuals, why are people up in arms about them getting married? Why do people protest their very existence? Why do politicians fight laws that deny employers the right to fire people based solely on sexual preference? If society was fine with homosexuals, no one would fire them for being gay in the first place.

And, again, if this is "no big deal", why is Collins the first active player in any major sport to publicly announce his homosexuality?

The law of numbers and the complete absence of other publicly gay active players dictate that this is a very big deal, whether you want to view it that way or not.

That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.


No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Collins should be able to go to awards ceremonies, dinner, team events, continue ad nauseum, with his partner, male or female and nobody should care.

What I find "self-serving" are the people who think that men like Collins should stay in the closet because gay people are icky. He has every damned right to live his life and be honest about it, just like everybody else.

#28 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,642 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.


I won't claim to be a well-versed NBA fan, but basically anyone who is an "expert" on NBA has said that he is a perfect backup center for purposes of defense. You cite points per game as if that's the only impact that a 7-foot tall player could have on the court. He's done nothing to the league. He's a guy who's living on one-year veteran's minimum contracts at this point, and he was all but guaranteed another one for 2013-2014 before this announcement. The league is in no different place now than they were before the announcement. I'm hearing from a lot of the anti-gay extreme right that same argument about the league, and most of them couldn't name more than 2 teams currently in the NBA playoffs.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#29 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,804 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:39 PM

That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.


I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.

#30 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,328 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

I will say, I worry that this guy might not get a job next year because he's not a very good player and this effort on his part may be minimized. Or that he may not get a job because of talent but it will be perceived as reinforcing stereotypes.

#31 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,642 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

I will say, I worry that this guy might not get a job next year because he's not a very good player and this effort on his part may be minimized. Or that he may not get a job because of talent but it will be perceived as reinforcing stereotypes.


He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#32 snepp

snepp

    Curve Hanger

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,794 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:40 PM

We as a society are fine with homosexuals.


In your Utopia perhaps, but not in the real world.

#33 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,328 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.


Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.

#34 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,642 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:21 PM

Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.


Part of that was the team, though. He'd have had a lot more minutes with the TWolves, the Lakers, or any number of teams who didn't already have two guys with his basic skill set.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#35 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:26 AM

Yeah, that's not true at all. Not even a little bit. If society was fine with homosexuals, why are people up in arms about them getting married? Why do people protest their very existence? Why do politicians fight laws that deny employers the right to fire people based solely on sexual preference? If society was fine with homosexuals, no one would fire them for being gay in the first place.

And, again, if this is "no big deal", why is Collins the first active player in any major sport to publicly announce his homosexuality?

The law of numbers and the complete absence of other publicly gay active players dictate that this is a very big deal, whether you want to view it that way or not.



No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Collins should be able to go to awards ceremonies, dinner, team events, continue ad nauseum, with his partner, male or female and nobody should care.

What I find "self-serving" are the people who think that men like Collins should stay in the closet because gay people are icky. He has every damned right to live his life and be honest about it, just like everybody else.


When I say society I don't really care what people over the age of 55 think, and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best. Jackie Robinson didn't get to play the first 10 years as an unknown he was known to be black the day the first non-blind man saw him, and he was born into a very racist society. As for the whole religious and marriage debate, a true religion will never change views it may lose members but the moment it changes views it's done being meaningful, they will fight laws against their belief much more strongly then any other group. In the end who cares if the law changes now or in 2026 we know it's coming and it is legal to live a married life (I understand the critical exceptions).

I guess I'm just really bothered that a guy who has next to no chance of an NBA contract next year is doing this at this time. Essra Toualola and John Amechi have already done this, but they didn't do it in a self serving way.

#36 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:30 AM

I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.


Wait so I'm not aware of that? HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU BUT I'M NOT AN IDIOT.

#37 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:42 AM

Going into last year ESPN rated him the 391th best NBA player and falling. In the NBA there are 31 teams with 12 "ACTIVE" roster spots, Probably another 50 to 70 on injured reserve. This years NBA draft will add 30-40 players to NBA rosters not to mention other young players from prior drafts will be entering the league. To sat he is an active player or will easily sign with a team is just not true. The Stat wins above replacement assumes players who are better then Jason Collins, or in other words he is easily replaced.

#38 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,804 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:55 AM

and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best.


Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.

#39 mikecgrimes

mikecgrimes

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.


I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up. The thousands booing Santa were having a good time anyone yelling a slur wouldn't have a good time, it's just not a realistic expectation. Sitting behind the Texas Rangers dugout last April a few months after his relapse I didn't hear one thing about Josh Hamilton's addiction issues. it's just not socially acceptable to make those kind of comments in a public place. It's barley socially acceptable to get on the refs or umpires to bad. If you aren't drunk, and very few fans are all that drunk, nobody is going to make that sort of mistake.

#40 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,642 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up.


That says it all. Thanks for clearing up any need to reply going forward.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!